State Wrestling Poll

[countrypk]

I think what bothers alot of people on here is that Baylor gets ranked 1st in the polls and their kids dont have to live in a zone to go there because it privite. They either pay lots of money to get their kids there or get financial aid..... either way some of these kids still live in Georgia or even a different county.

 

All of these public school kids have to physically live in the school zone to attend their designated school.

 

bottom line..... money seems to EQUAL a better opportunity to win because they dont have to play by the same rules as public schools, most times almost guarenteeing championships....so it doesnt EQUAL the playing field.

 

So when they are ranked first, I dont care or it doesnt matter to me because even though I know they play by the rules.... its a totally different set of rules than most of the state. (essentially, its a dream team 1st place ranking).

 

Just my opinion. /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" /> /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

And I know that most everyone that sees this thats kid is in public school agrees with me because it you read this carefully enough you know that its the truth... most people just dont want to hear all the privites gripe back about it.

 

 

 

Since it bothers you so much, publish your own poll. You can label it "Tennessee High School Wrestling Poll*"

[MWR]

tnko,

 

You are not correct. Most children that attend public school do live in their designated zone, however, a student may attend a public school that they are not zoned for. I thought I read something the other day that there was going to be open zoning in Williamson County for Page and Independence. Also, Murfreesboro used to be open zoning in the old days when Riverdale was the king of football. It is not open zoning now with all of the new High Schools that have been built. Don't make it look like a public school can only take students in their zone, for if you do, you are not telling the truth. Case in point, G.P. West lived in Murfreesboro and his son attended Brentwood High School. Now I know you are going to say that his father taught and coached there and you would be correct; however, he was not zoned for Brentwood! Overton, in their hey day had most of their wrestlers from other zones. Casey Brewster did not live in the Overton zone as well as others!!!!

 

 

Exactly right, I guess tnko just felt like leaving the open zone issue out of his post. A wrestler choosing to go to say Bradley or whichever school because it's an open zone is, in itself, a form of recruiting.

[tnko]

I wonder if those economic issues would keep you from putting a Div. 2 private school on your schedule?

 

 

and TNKO, would the issues you bring up make any difference in weather you would schedule a Div.2 private school? While I agree with you about what the poll means or does not mean (dream team ranking), but would that make you not want to wrestle them if you made the schedule for your team?

 

If your asking me for example- I were the head coach of the #2 ranked school in the state and (public), would I wrestle the #1 ranked team in the state that was privite, my answer would be YES.....

 

My post was strictly opinionated /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[tnko]

tnko,

 

You are not correct. Most children that attend public school do live in their designated zone, however, a student may attend a public school that they are not zoned for. I thought I read something the other day that there was going to be open zoning in Williamson County for Page and Independence. Also, Murfreesboro used to be open zoning in the old days when Riverdale was the king of football. It is not open zoning now with all of the new High Schools that have been built. Don't make it look like a public school can only take students in their zone, for if you do, you are not telling the truth. Case in point, G.P. West lived in Murfreesboro and his son attended Brentwood High School. Now I know you are going to say that his father taught and coached there and you would be correct; however, he was not zoned for Brentwood! Overton, in their hey day had most of their wrestlers from other zones. Casey Brewster did not live in the Overton zone as well as others!!!!

 

Even though I agree with you that some kids do not attend their zoned school..... Most all do.

 

Williamson Co and I know Davidson Co offer open zones if your zoned school is failing the statewide report card scores then you can be transferred to a passing school. But that has to be the reason or One school doesnt offer a special curricullum or class that you want to take. But I believe that you still have to sit out 1 VARSITY UPCOMING YEAR when you transfer.

 

Hoosierdad, I really dont know every kids/parents actions in public but mostly yes they could use the reasons above to get to another public school with a better athletic program.

 

But most kids do attend their own zoned school.

[hammerman2]

DI, DII, public vs. private...every year it's the same debate. As someone who really doesn't have "a dog in this fight," I say that "life is not always fair." In the real world some people have financial and other advantages that others do not. Wrestling is no different. In our relatively small rural school, we certainly have disadvantages. It would be nice to combine several of the smaller schools to make us more powerful. You've got to draw a line somewhere. ALL of the schools in Nashville, Chattanooga, and even Murfreesboro have an advantage over the rest of us because of the number of students available. We have trouble even getting a full line-up of kids to wrestle sometimes. Those big schools have 3-4 kids deep at each weight class. That's not really fair. I guess I'm trying to say...everyone needs to "get over it." No one said life was fair.

[slingshot]

But just like the rest of the "opinionated" posters, you're NOT the coach of the #2 team, are you? The difference is, he won't come to your job and tell you how he thinks you should do it ! Get yourself a teaching certificate, find yourself a job, get hired as the schools wrestling coach, build your feeder, middle and high school program, then you can make any wrestling decision for YOUR team that you feel is best.

[tnko]

Exactly right, I guess tnko just felt like leaving the open zone issue out of his post. A wrestler choosing to go to say Bradley or whichever school because it's an open zone is, in itself, a form of recruiting.

 

Just because a county or two have open zoning its suppose to be for curricullum reasons and if its not, its not my buisiness. Like I said, I dont control other kids/parents.

 

But most counties do not have open zoning and the kids do mostly attend their designated zoned school. /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[tnko]

But just like the rest of the "opinionated" posters, you're NOT the coach of the #2 team, are you? The difference is, he won't come to your job and tell you how he thinks you should do it ! Get yourself a teaching certificate, find yourself a job, get hired as the schools wrestling coach, build your feeder, middle and high school program, then you can make any wrestling decision for YOUR team that you feel is best.

 

slingshot, are you speaking to me??? /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[texas23]

If your asking me for example- I were the head coach of the #2 ranked school in the state and (public), would I wrestle the #1 ranked team in the state that was privite, my answer would be YES.....

 

My post was strictly opinionated /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

 

 

so would I.

[texas23]

But just like the rest of the "opinionated" posters, you're NOT the coach of the #2 team, are you? The difference is, he won't come to your job and tell you how he thinks you should do it ! Get yourself a teaching certificate, find yourself a job, get hired as the schools wrestling coach, build your feeder, middle and high school program, then you can make any wrestling decision for YOUR team that you feel is best.

 

 

Being "told" how to do it or having an opinion on how someone would like to see it done comes with the territory of being a coach. I think the coach of the number 2 team understands that and so far has held firm to doing exactly what you just posted.

[gonavy2]

DI, DII, public vs. private...every year it's the same debate. As someone who really doesn't have "a dog in this fight," I say that "life is not always fair." In the real world some people have financial and other advantages that others do not. Wrestling is no different. In our relatively small rural school, we certainly have disadvantages. It would be nice to combine several of the smaller schools to make us more powerful. You've got to draw a line somewhere. ALL of the schools in Nashville, Chattanooga, and even Murfreesboro have an advantage over the rest of us because of the number of students available. We have trouble even getting a full line-up of kids to wrestle sometimes. Those big schools have 3-4 kids deep at each weight class. That's not really fair. I guess I'm trying to say...everyone needs to "get over it." No one said life was fair.

 

Good post, Hammerman. Really, the only thing that ultimately matters is results, and the development of the young men, and we all know the tremendous amount of hard work that goes into that development. After all, a wrestler only has 4 short years somewhere in some program, and the situation probably will not materially change during that timeframe. If you happen to have a lot of boys in the school, a lot of feeder program wrestlers in the school, some transfers that help, great, longtime coaching, brothers and fathers who wrestled, then you are at the top of the heap. With a small school, lose a couple of stud wrestlers, lose a coach, lose some support of the program to other programs (spreading the athletes around), then you are not.

The TSSAA has attempted over the years to equalize the regions and divisions, as we know, for each of the sports, and it is only crudely efficient, and at best will be more fair than doing nothing, and unfortunately will screw some and help some. My interest was more D2, so I have collected factoids in my head , which are now non-factoids, but the jist is this:

 

D2 schools get a multiplier times the number of students (1.3 maybe?), to compensate for the idea that those going to private schools are more apt to play sports.

Somewhere in the TSSAA info had abreakdown on the number of boys, and there is a significant disparity between teams competing against one another(neither good nor bad, just what it is). I suspect the same in D1 regions (D2 IS a region).

This one is an opinion-oid: I wish our guys could wrestle more like D1, we had to go to the MBA-FR last night 'cause we had no match!

 

Anyway, consider yourself lucky to be part of, root for, watch, a long-standing great program. I think you can beat your chest occasionally about it, be smug sometimes, and have fun with it all...who cares? But I think the ones actually out there doing battle as far as I am comcerned deserve all of the credit and recognition, from whatever program, even if it on the bottom. A salute to the men...

[taketop]

Don't know any Biffs, Bubba. As many on the DI side regularly do, your boy Taketop accuses Baylor of cheating without any proof. He is obviously confused about the difference between scholarships and financial aid. That subject is explained and debated Ad nauseam on the Private/Public string. If he really wants an explanation, I'm sure the TSSAA website has it but he probably wouldn't want to be confused with facts. He goes on to accuse Baylor of recruiting without any proof because he has none and will never be able to produce any.

 

Among the many reasons parents want their sons to go to Baylor is because of the opportunity to get a superior education and and to wrestle for a great high school coaching staff. I assume that's why a lot of parents send their boys to Bradley and in cases have moved to Bradley in order to take advantage of Coach Logsden's talents. In both cases, if you want to call that recruiting, go ahead.

 

I'm resolved to the fact that Coach Logsden isn't going to allow his team to wrestle Baylor or McCallie. It's his decision. Like most high school wrestling fans on this board I would love to see Bradley wrestle them. It would be good for the sport to have two quality teams in close proximity wrestle in front of thousands of fans. Coach Logsden defenders (and he doesn't need any) in many cases defend his position by insulting and accusing Baylor and McCallie of TSSAA rule violations.

 

And to the subject at hand. Baylor has the better team this year and the polls agree with me. There's only one way to prove differently and Coach Logsden is going to make sure that doesn't happen. It's his perogative.

 

 

I understand why people want their kids in private school. I understand why private schools give kids money (call it what you want) to come to school. I also know people who were recruited and offered scholarships. some took it and some didn't. I am not offering proof that could be used in a court of law. That has already been done and the private schools lost. look that up. It is what it is. I am not in the least bit confused. And lastley, I have read what the tssaa handbook says. have you? No? Being the humanitarian that i am, I have included it for your reading pleasure. Not sure of what your point was. Have a nice day. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

Tuition and Financial Aid

Section 16. If tuition is charged, it must be paid by parent, bona fide guardian or other family member. If a parent, guardian or other family member secures a loan for payment of tuition, it must remain an obligation of the parents, guardian or other family member to repay the principle and interest in full with no exceptions. Financial aid will be allowed under the following conditions:

1. Children of full-time faculty members may be given financial aid, but such students, if transfers, shall be ineligible for 12 months in any sport in which they have an athletic record for the previous or current year.

 

2. Financial aid may be awarded on the basis of need, but proof of such need must be filed in the TSSAA office on forms approved by the Executive Director. In order to determine the basis for need, all schools awarding financial aid shall use the School and Student Scholastic Service for Financial Aid of Princeton, New Jersey. A committee consisting of School Heads from Division II schools and one ex-officio, non-voting member from the Board of Control will meet and make recommendations to the Board of Control on each student submitted. In addition, this committee will collect information from schools regarding financial aid statistics, grant procedures, and the overall financial aid program within the school. The Board of Control will then rule on all cases at the August meeting. The Board of Control shall have authority to reject the basis for need for students when in its opinion, or the opinion of the school committee, the amount of need stated by School and Student Service for Financial Aid of Princeton, New Jersey, cannot be justified.

Page 14 September 24, 2008 2008-09 TSSAA Handbook

 

3. Any loan program, grant program, educational foundation or similar program that is established and/or administered, in whole or in part, by a school or official of a school is considered financial aid.

Schools shall remove any student from athletic eligibility whose accounts with the school are 60 days overdue.

All records pertaining to financial aid or tuition assistance shall be open to TSSAA upon its request. Each school shall be responsible for securing necessary authorization to allow TSSAA to review or audit such records.

Recruiting Rule

Section 17. The use of undue influence on a student (with or without an athletic record), the parents or guardians of a student by any person connected, or not connected, with the school to secure or to retain a student for athletic purposes shall be a violation of the recruiting rule.