If David Limbaugh was in charge, here is the way...

[MarkH]

Both D 2 games will be on Thursday at 3:30 and 7. Friday you have 1A, 3A and 5A at noon, 3:30 and 7. Saturday is 2A, 4A and 6A at noon, 3:30 and 7 PM.

[BDURHAM]

1A Championship games probably have the2nd largest attendance in some years.

 

Do not diminish the crowds that 1A championship games can created.

[BurroBall]

I posted this on a smaller thread, but figured I would post it here also:

 

I am wondering about what the problem would be with staying with 3 classes for public schools through the state playoffs (ala every other sport).

 

The reason there are 3 champions in soccer or baseball or softball but 6 now in football is $$$.

 

I offered 4 as an olive branch knowing they will never go back to less than 5 - again for the $$$.

 

But how many people from teams that don't qualify would go to the games of teams that do if you did drop it to 4? But the answer is going to be less classifications, less games, less gates.

 

Man, that's ironic as that seems to be the same reason NCAA Division 1-A won't institute a 32 team playoff format for their postseason. Good grief.

[BMack]

You may be right Stan. I wasn't trying to take away anything from the 1A schools. I can't remember anything from the previous state championship games. I can barely remember who won. I get up bright and early every year and drive to Middle Tennessee just in time for the first game on Friday.

[thorough97]

RedRebels,

I have met David (at the 2006 semis at Smyrna) and he is who he say he is. I have helped you out a time or two when Ooltewah played WB, so hopefully you remember who I am. I'll vouch for him, he is meaning well for all of these suggestions.

 

David,

I would recommend giving these plans to the members of the Legislative Council and Board of Control from the Murfreesboro area. They can bring it up to the principals, athletic directors, and coaches in the area, their support will be paramount in getting your ideas implemented. I don't think that just giving them to the TSSAA office alone is going to get these changes made, IMO, it's going to have to come from the membership of the TSSAA and get grass roots support first. Just making some suggestions.

[66in74]

If David Limbaugh was in charge, here is the way it would be.

 

in 2009-2010 school year there are 302 Division 1 high school football teams.

 

We go with four (4) Classifications.

 

75 or 76 per classification.

 

8 regions. 9 to 10 teams in each region. District round-robin and schedule non-district games but only district games count toward postseason and top 4 teams in each district qualify and play in bracket that worked fine last year and a few years before that.

 

No wildcards. Overall record has no bearing. A simple plan.

 

I assume you'll break them down by enrollement?

What are breaks for enrollment?

 

Privates? Is there a multiplier?

Will you address open enrollment?

Will you address "out of zone" transfers from Jr High to Sr High?

Will you address "rural" vs "metro"?

Will you address local gov't support of athletics vs. no support?

 

All of these are legitmate questions.

[onefortheteam]

Hey david is your idea going to be accurate like the Moore "You Got To be" insane Poll?

 

Arlington 10-0, ranked #73 and 4 teams that are 5-5, one of which lost to Arl. at home ranked ahead of them by at least20 spots. A joke, overall record is the standard, anything else is BS of what other people want or believe.

 

nice...Must be a future BCS system, based on years past in a league that 50-60% of the starters change yearly.

[davidlimbaugh]

I assume you'll break them down by enrollement?

What are breaks for enrollment?

 

Privates? Is there a multiplier?

Will you address open enrollment?

Will you address "out of zone" transfers from Jr High to Sr High?

Will you address "rural" vs "metro"?

Will you address local gov't support of athletics vs. no support?

 

All of these are legitmate questions.

 

Basically, rank the D1's by enrollment. Then D1's that are private are moved up a class, with everyone else shifting down. Four classes. 75 or so per class. 8 regions, 9 to 10 teams in each region. Round-Robin region schedule with out of district games that mean nothing but money. Top 4 in region standings (with any tiebreakers decided by the district themselves) of each meet 1-4,3-2,2-3,1-4 and so on and so on. No ratings. No wildcards. No magic formulas. Just a race to finish 1 and 2 to host and 3 and 4 just to get in....

[jlmac4]

Round-Robin region schedule with out of district games that mean nothing but money.

 

 

Not to criticize, but this is one area where TN football is hurting itself in my opinion. Why shouldn't every game count? Who you play should also matter, because it's not fair for team A, with one or two more wins and an easy schedule to get in over team B that has played a tougher schedule, and has more quality wins. Inequity develops. What usually happens is some 'districts' concentrate the good teams, meaning that overall, one district becomes really good and another really bad where an average team in a good district can beat the best team in another district. Better teams end up sitting at home. And again, because getting into the playoffs depends solely on district W-L, some teams won't "play up" and schedule better competition outside the district, and the schedule gets dumbed down. In the long haul, this actually hurts their program. In order to be the best, you have to play the best. Scheduling these types of matchups brings the level of play up. Get rid of the "district" equation, divide all schools evenly into however many classifications you see fit by enrollment, an equal amount of teams in each division. Then divide each division into four geographical regions. Top 8 in each region of each classification qualify for playoffs. That gives you 32 teams in each classification. Use a multiplier for privates if they are to be in with publics(I know this is a horse that has been beaten more than any other, but playing these teams during the season makes you better come playoffs).

There is a need for a points system, where the better your defeated opponents do throughout the season, the more points you accumulate. This ensures EVERY team has earned their way into the playoffs. If there is no reward for going out and playing quality teams out of district, TN is losing out on seeing some great matchups that for the most part do not happen, which is counter productive to raising the level of play state wide....especially come playoff time.

This years' tournament field is unbelieveably weak, and if this is indicative of years past, TN h.s. football is even worse off than I first thought since moving here 5 years ago. There are 24 teams in this years tourney with a losing record, with one an unbelieveable 1-9. In order to grasp just how bad that is, consider this: In Ohio, 192 out of 718 schools in 6 divisions qualify for the playoffs(27%). There have been a total of FOURteams with losing records qualify for the playoffs in the last 10 years.http://www.ohsaa.org/news/sports/110109_FT_1.pdf Should give you a picture of the difference in level of play in the playoffs between these two states. I'm not doing this to downgrade anyone, or gloat. I'm doing this because I am a huge fan of h.s. football, I know TN fans wouldn't mind a better product on the field(matchups), whether it's regular season, or playoffs. I've seen comments along those lines in this forum. I know first hand from 30 plus yrs of playing/following Ohio football that what they have in place is a great model for any state. It has been said more than once that the Ohio DI(biggest) playoffs are the toughest, most competitive in the nation. It's because every team has earned their spot. I contacted Mr. Childress last year about the old format, and suggested the Harbin points system, and he in essence, seemed indignant, and replied that at one time, a similar system was used, and that member schools are happy with the system they have now(old system). Maybe they just aren't aware of what else is out there. He seemed almost insulted that someone would suggest that there is something better than the system in place. Maybe some people just don't like change, I don't know.

Maybe someone should circulate a similar system to member schools to plant the seed and see if enough people like it. Or even start with a poll on this forum. I don't claim to know the perfect answer, but I do know that what is in place is far from a good system.

I like to compare the BCS mess to this situation in some regards. How many people think that even at 12-0, Boise St. should be in the title game with the schedule they play? How many agree that if Notre Dame wins 10 games, no matter how difficult their schedule, they automatically recieve a BCS at-large bid? It matters who you play, and EVERY game should count.

[davidlimbaugh]

... In order to grasp just how bad that is, consider this: In Ohio, 192 out of 718 schools in 6 divisions qualify for the playoffs(27%). There have been a total of FOURteams with losing records qualify for the playoffs in the last 10 years.http://www.ohsaa.org/news/sports/110109_FT_1.pdf

 

...

 

that what they have in place is a great model for any state. It has been said more than once that the Ohio DI(biggest) playoffs are the toughest, most competitive in the nation. It's because every team has earned their spot. I contacted Mr. Childress last year about the old format, and suggested the Harbin points system, and he in essence, seemed indignant, and replied that at one time, a similar system was used, and that member schools are happy with the system they have now(old system). Maybe they just aren't aware of what else is out there. He seemed almost insulted that someone would suggest that there is something better than the system in place. Maybe some people just don't like change, I don't know.

Maybe someone should circulate a similar system to member schools to plant the seed and see if enough people like it. Or even start with a poll on this forum. I don't claim to know the perfect answer, but I do know that what is in place is far from a good system.

I like to compare the BCS mess to this situation in some regards. How many people think that even at 12-0, Boise St. should be in the title game with the schedule they play? How many agree that if Notre Dame wins 10 games, no matter how difficult their schedule, they automatically recieve a BCS at-large bid? It matters who you play, and EVERY game should count.

 

That is why I have also suggested a system similar to Ohio's to try to equal the playing field. I don't think Ohio's makes a big enough difference between playing teams in a class lower than yours. If you want to play in the 6A or 5A or 4A or ... post-season, you should at least play some other teams in that classification

[jlmac4]

That is why I have also suggested a system similar to Ohio's to try to equal the playing field. I don't think Ohio's makes a big enough difference between playing teams in a class lower than yours. If you want to play in the 6A or 5A or 4A or ... post-season, you should at least play some other teams in that classification

I think it is maybe because of the difference in sizes of school districts. There are very, very few "county" schools in Ohio, where kids from an entire county go to one school. Here is a breakdown of divisional enrollment is figured. Keep in mind, these figures apply to number of boys in 9-12, not entire enrollment.

 

Division/ Enrollment/# of Schools/ point value for win against

I 518 and more 120 6

II 348 to 517 118 5.5

III 252 to 347 120 5

IV 177 to 251 119 4.5

V 125 to 176 120 4

VI 124 and less 121 3.5

Total Schools 718

Most all schools do play most games in their own division regular season. They are in leagues or conferences that are based for the most part on similar enrollment and proximity. The difference in division size between all schools within a league is 1 division larger or smaller for the most part. This is not as big a deal as you might think, as they are by and large competitive. Their are some independent and private schools that have to play up, as some schools in the same division don't want to play them, but it equals out in fewer wins, a lower seed in the playoffs. I think if you study this years' points standings a little, particularly in the smaller schools(DIV-VI), you will find the point value for each division works out very well. Also compare some of the teams that just missed out on the playoffs with a better record than teams above them. You'll find that strength of schedule is important, and only the strongest are in the playoffs. http://www.jjhuddle.com/pages/?pg=JoeEitelComputerRankings

A great example is in DIV, region 14. Orrville(my home town) is sitting at 3rd with a 7-3 record. There are 5 teams under them with a better record, including #11 Bucyrus. If you click on each team you will see their schedule/results/and what [division] each opponent is in. Orrville is in a league where most schools are bigger than them, some much larger. This is a direct result of proximity/leagues willing to let them in, as they are more than competitive with larger schools. Bucyrus is in a league where a lot of schools are smaller than them, where based on this years' standings, they need to schedule better non-league opponents to make up for this(if they want ot be in the playoffs). This forces you to take a look at your schedule, and determine if it is enough to get you in, or if you need to find better non-league opponents(goes back to raising the level of play state wide).

On a related note, during the playoffs, half of the divisions(II, III, V) play on friday, half play on saturday(I, IV, VI). This also enables fans to see twice as many playoff games, and ensures enough adequate sites are available each week. Last night, in the 1st round, there were 14 out of 48 games where the lower seed won(29%). Three of those had a #8 seed defeat a #1 seed. Five games had a #6 defeat a #3. To me, it is testament to how well the system works. Every participant has earned their spot, and it is much more competitive than what is used in TN.

[davidlimbaugh]

On a related note, during the playoffs, half of the divisions(II, III, V) play on friday, half play on saturday(I, IV, VI). This also enables fans to see twice as many playoff games, and ensures enough adequate sites are available each week. Last night, in the 1st round, there were 14 out of 48 games where the lower seed won(29%). Three of those had a #8 seed defeat a #1 seed. Five games had a #6 defeat a #3. To me, it is testament to how well the system works. Every participant has earned their spot, and it is much more competitive than what is used in TN.

 

Can't play on Saturday here - we have real college football to watch and we have weather to let them play at night

 

Good stuff though - but I hope you see what I mean about how I think a system should encourage larger schools to play more schools of their own class but also reward smaller schools for scheduling up. I am going to use Brighton as my glaring example of what is currently wrong. Went 0-1 for the year against 6-A competition and then was seeded third and got to host a game - one they lost to a 6 seed Kirby 49-21. Perhaps if Brighton had scheduled a couple of 6A games and lost them instead of playing a 1A and 3A team they wouldn't have been a 3 seed? See what I mean?