You Make the Call

[DiamondDad]

My son was told by one of his summer teammates that the Oak Ridge coach is cleaning house over in the city that glows. I heard that he told 2 of his returning starters (brothers), one of their senior Ps and a senior OFer not to even bother coming out if they can't clean up some off the field issues - essentially kicking them off the team.

 

I won't name any names, as these are kids, but I've seen the brothers in question play several times and they're both VERY good baseball players. I've also seen indicators that give me no surprise that off the field actions have gotten in the way of talent. Kudos to the OR coach, whose name escapes me, on putting integrity over wins and losses. This should really put them at a disadvantage this season. They graduated their two top pitchers, their projected #1 had shoulder surgery (per another post), lost one of his top freshman pitchers to Bearden, and now he's dismissed 4 upperclassmen, 3 of whom pitch and 2 of them play in the middle of the field. Doesn't look like it's shaping up to be a banner year for them. I would imagine that the expecations were high for a team that finished in the top part of the district and only graduated 2 seniors off that team.

 

This got me to thinking and my question is this: Do you throw away a season by kicking trouble makers off a team and almost ensure a last place finish or do you do your best to manage them and see what kind of season you can muster out of a team of less than stellar integrity players? Is it more fun for kids to win with punks on their team or lose with class? How many other programs can get away with this (I would think the parents of these players have not taken this decision laying down)? When a coach losses after cleaning house, does that put a job in jeopardy or do you get a pass in the win-loss column?

 

I know when I heard the news I was not surprised and yet shocked. The 2 players I've seen don't have much class but I don't know off many coaches with the baseballs to kick high caliber players off his team. Sounds like the kind of guy I'd like for my son to play for...if we weren't already very happy in a winning program. When I told our coach what I had heard, he smiled with relief and said now he knows where he'll look to rest his #1 and #2 pitchers down the stretch.

[cbg]

If the coach is trying to build a program (most schools are not) that will last forever you run off all of the trash. If the coach only wants to win games this season and worry about next year when it comes you allow the trouble makers to play. When the coach made the decision to clean house I hope he had the full support and prior approval of both the athletic director and principal.

[ksgovols]

Exactly cbg. It's about the program. I believe in a code of conduct and a player contract that the player and the parents sign. Then, you can go with a system of demerits or a 3 strike and you're out philosophy. The main thing is that the thugs are gone. The program should be bigger than an individual or 9 individuals.

[Tennesseesportsfan]

I agree with discipline and the team concept. But why should high school kids be held to a higher standard than college kids? College athletes in Knoxville are allowed 3 drug violations before they are dismissed on the fourth. The TV is full of college and pro athletes in trouble with law enforcement. Our kids are growing up in the "me" society with coaches and instituions are more worried with wins, which equals money, than developing fine young men. If the Oak Ridge coach is trying rid his team of a few outlaws, admire and support him, not criticize him.

[counteroption]

Losing doing what is right is far better than winning doing what is questionable. UT basketball's greatest win came over number 1 Kansas shortly after 3 or 4 of their guys were not there for questionable behavior. Eliminating the thugs sends a message to the kids who are trying to do what is right. That message is that hard work and ethical behavior are rewarded. Unfortunately, there is not enough of this in today's world.

[glock22]

I agree with discipline and the team concept. But why should high school kids be held to a higher standard than college kids? College athletes in Knoxville are allowed 3 drug violations before they are dismissed on the fourth...

 

Maybe because high school athletes become college athletes! You have to start somewhere, high school seems like a good place to me if discipline is not taught in the home.

[Tennesseesportsfan]

I agree with discipline and the team concept. But why should high school kids be held to a higher standard than college kids? College athletes in Knoxville are allowed 3 drug violations before they are dismissed on the fourth...

 

Maybe because high school athletes become college athletes! You have to start somewhere, high school seems like a good place to me if discipline is not taught in the home.

 

 

I agree, failed attempt at sarcasm. Discipline starts at a early age, high school may be too late of a start. Bottom line, admire the coach for cleaning up his program when so many other coaches wouldnt do it for fear of losing.

[Whatagreatgame]

This is a tough one. We don't know the situation or the history of the guys in question nor do we need to know. Not knowing all the facts and the history I think we should trust the ones who do know the facts. I think there should be strict rules to follow and punishment for actions but do you throw a high school kid to the curb or maybe suspension then re-instatement after the guys have proven they want and deserve to still be around. We need to remember high school students are just that "students", they're still just kids and need guidance and understanding. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying let them get away with just anything but they're still just kids. Take in consideration their home life, do they have someone who is a good example? There are so many things to consider that most of us have no knowledge of. I would say the best thing the ones of us on coach t could do is to pray for the kids and for those who disipline them. They still have a big future ahead of them, how can that be best handled to make them better members of society.

[cbg]

No need for any contract & this is not a difficult/tough decision. As a coach if you have kids & families that are not going to FULLY support the program you simply ask them to leave the program. Having coached for over 30+ years at every level from kids rec league to college I never had to kick a player or parent out of the program. Over that period of time I probably only ever had to have a one on one meeting about someones behavior five times. If the coach will tell everyone up front what his expectations are he will eliminate most of the problems. The problem with today's generation of coaches is that most stick their head in the sand and hope the problem goes away or that someone else will handle the problem. What happens when you stick your head in the sand is the problem get's larger and spins out of control. This is a very simple topic; kids will make mistakes and when they do you deliver a swift & harsh punishment. As a coach you may be one tough son of a gun but you never stop loving your players. Most coaches today don't understand how to rip a player at 2:00pm and @ 2:05pm you put your arm around them and tell them they did XYZ very well.

[tnbigbear]

I do not know what to think about this topic on coacht, anyone who has seen oak ridge play will assume who this is about, with no public release of any kind, or punishment being given out, I would think this could have an effect on these kids, you never know who is reading these post and could pass judgement based on rumours, if it is who I would assume you are speaking of, they are both quality ball players with above average skills and project well, could have a future at the next level, so let us not pass judgement based on talk, if they have done enough to be removed from the team, then it must have been pretty serious, Oak Ridge has a very good coach with a lot of knowledge and experience.

I think a few five mile practices for these boys would be more in order, if it is just a matter of attitude,

they may just get there hearts in the right place, if they cant take it, then it was not something they really wanted anyway, have seen good players put off the team in their senior before, and most of them went even farther downhill, if this is something they really want then give them some serious punishment and if they want it they will take it, to kick a player off in his senior year, he would have to do something illegal and had a couple earlier warnings, after all your not taking away their video game or car or cell phone, you are making a seriuos decision on there future, not to mention punishining the rest of the team in a sense by losing their talent, and as far as setting a example, making them run the entire practice for the first couple weeks and not start the first few games will alert the other players more than removing them, as the previous post stated they are still kids. and for sure let us not poke at the parents, if it is these boys, you could not ask for more involved parents, and I am sure they get more than enough instruction of right from wrong, remember these are the me generation kids.

[ksgovols]

Coach telling players what's expected of them and what they have to do to stay on the team is an oral contract of sorts. Putting it on paper only validates it more. Player and parents signing it eliminates all the gray areas. It's a simple thing to do that's a more effective means of communicating which is where 90% of the problems lie. Particularly where school administrators and school boards are involved in the process. I'm not talking about summer teams or rec teams. When there's an issue at the high school level, administrators and school boards are going to be involved. A signed piece of paper that says you understand the team rules and how they are to be administered makes it easier on everybody.

[Tennesseesportsfan]

Keep in mind that playing is a priviledge not a right. The students must follow the rules of the school, coach and TSSAA. Any school administrator will support the coach on discipline issues.