Alcoa Zoning Restrictions

[Govolsknox]

I've read every post on this thread and many more on others about this issue. Personally I have never really thought about it until the last few years. My take on it is this. Alcoa has always had out of zone players. We have gotten these kids for many reasons. One its the closets high school from their house. Alot of kids are 5 and 10 minutes closer to Alcoa than the schools their zoned for. Academics have always been very good and some parents like the smaller classroom for their kids. Of course the athletics have always excelled at this school. Tuition is very affordable compared to the only other city school in the county. Then you add in the tradition here and its a very appealing school. I have never really looked at this as an advantage because Alcoa has always played in 2A. Despite the fact that it only had between 360-400 students during most of those years. Let me explain my comment for those who don't know. Alcoa has played in 2A since I believe 81. We moved up in division because of our Athletics budget. It was more sensible to play 2a team 20 and 30 minutes away than play 1a opponents 45min to 1hr 30min. Plus during that era Alcoa wanted to play better competition than what 1A was offering. That was in all sports. That decision has cost us numerous state titles in several sports including basketball but it was the right one. That really elevated our sports at the school. We didn't complain are whine about it we got better. Thats what some of you should do, of course this won't happen. Programs like CAK and Loudon have taken on the challenge and their programs in football have gotten better. Some of us will always move forward while others always get left behind.

 

DSM, with all due respect, I think you miss the crucial point. Alcoa is a phenom of a program. They may have played "up" in the past which cost them championships in some sports. That is not the issue IMO.

 

The question is, does open zoning offer Alcoa and other open zone schools an opportunity to draw from a larger talent pool than a school system that does not offer open zoning. If not, never mind. But if so, they are more closely related to other types of schools that have the ability to draw from a larger talent pool than their student population would indicate, such as DI privates or DII privates.

 

IMO, Alcoa is the best team in the state this year (and last) regardless of class. Just because they would win it all regardless of what classification they were in is irrelevant to what the responsibility is of the TSSAA.

 

I have trouble believing anyone could look at the ability to draw from an entire county vs. only drawing from a school district and honestly say that there is no advantage. That doesn't mean that I don't think Alcoa would win even if there was a change made; they would! But clearly, open zoning is an advantage vs. non open zoning. If not, someone please explain the advantage to NON open zone schools.??

[matt_8777]

I am from Benton County, Tennessee. I support the Camden Lions. I never started this post to ruffle the feathers of the Alcoa faithful. If Camden makes it to the state title game this year and plays Alcoa and loses 99-0, I won't cry about it. I will be proud of the Lions regardless of the outcome.

 

The city of Alcoa, I am certain, has some fine atheletes. As do all cities in the state. Some more than others. But to say that open zoning has no "advantage" is proposterous. I mean, you take Carrol County, Tennessee for example. There are four High School systems in that county. Hollow Rock-Bruceton, Huntingdon, McKenzie, and West Carroll. If you took the top notch atheletes from each of these schools and let them play together, I beleive you could compete with ANY team in the state. There is ALOT of talent on these teams. But there is no OOZ there. I recall two years ago that the Milan team had a player that was going to their school that was out of zone and they were forced to forfeit every game he played in. He didn't want to play for the team for which he was zoned into. If you give players a choice to play in a mediocre program, or to play in a 5-star program, which do you think he will play for. Open zones is a great advantage, but completely and totally within the rules of the T$$AA.

 

The whole "Open Zone" issue will not be addressed by the T$$AA until it profits them monitarily. If they find a way to make money on it, they will do something about it. If not, it will never be addressed.

 

And one last thing, all the so-called "fans" that keep getting offended because people ask questions about your program and school shouldn't be getting offended. With success, comes controversy. Get used to it. Success comes with a price. Take your panties off and put on your big boy pants and grow up. You aren't in high school anymore. At least I don't think you are!

[DSM10]

I really prefer these discussions take place in between seasons but I have made no secret that I think this is an area that the TSSAA WILL address at some point. It simply is too obvious. The issue is the size of the talent pool a school has to draw from. Thus, a small school is 1A and a huge school is 6A. Additionally, a private school that can draw from a larger talent pool than just a school district gets a multiplier as an equalizer. And a private that is allowed to offer scholarships is forced to play DII.

 

Many times people point out that open zone schools have not always been / are not always super successful. That is not the point. None of the above examples I gave are dependent on the success or lack thereof of the program. For instance, can a very large school that hasn't had a lot of success go play in a smaller class (Karns for example)? Or can a private that hasn't had much success avoid a multiplier? Or can a private that offers scholarships but isn't very good avoid playing in DII? The answer to all 3 is no. They are forced to accept an "equalizer" because of an OPPORTUNITY they have to get the advantage of a larger talent pool to draw from.

 

I'm really not sure why this is such an emotional issue for some. I respect and admire Alcoa and have a number of friends who support them. They aren't doing anything wrong! But that doesn't change that this is a REAL issue that the TSSAA will address at some point just as they have addressed the 3 examples I used above. (I accept without complaint the multiplier that my team, CAK is assessed.) If the open zone issue is not valid, then neither are the other issues where a larger talent pool is available, and the TSSAA should do away with DII, multipliers for privates, and the 6 classifications, and let the chips fall where they may. Regardless of who would win if that happened (Alcoa) it doesn't change the fact that the TSSAA needs to be consistent.

 

It's ok, let the flaming begin.

 

Until last year Govolsknox the multiplier would have had Alcoa in there same classification anyway. Of course it would put us in 4A now if it was the same as the privates. Would it be the same as the privates???? Your reasoning would put some schools at a disadvantage if so. Maybe not Alcoa but certainly others. What other open zoned schools benefit from this?? I personally believe we should go ahead and go to 4A. I think Alcoa(3A) and Milan last year was as good as the 4A teams in the championship game last year. Its just perception with some people that 4A better overall than 3A but I'm not sure looking at the schools in 3A. Be careful what you wish for. CAK won't be in 3A forever.

[DSM10]

I am from Benton County, Tennessee. I support the Camden Lions. I never started this post to ruffle the feathers of the Alcoa faithful. If Camden makes it to the state title game this year and plays Alcoa and loses 99-0, I won't cry about it. I will be proud of the Lions regardless of the outcome.

 

The city of Alcoa, I am certain, has some fine atheletes. As do all cities in the state. Some more than others. But to say that open zoning has no "advantage" is proposterous. I mean, you take Carrol County, Tennessee for example. There are four High School systems in that county. Hollow Rock-Bruceton, Huntingdon, McKenzie, and West Carroll. If you took the top notch atheletes from each of these schools and let them play together, I beleive you could compete with ANY team in the state. There is ALOT of talent on these teams. But there is no OOZ there. I recall two years ago that the Milan team had a player that was going to their school that was out of zone and they were forced to forfeit every game he played in. He didn't want to play for the team for which he was zoned into. If you give players a choice to play in a mediocre program, or to play in a 5-star program, which do you think he will play for. Open zones is a great advantage, but completely and totally within the rules of the T$$AA.

 

The whole "Open Zone" issue will not be addressed by the T$$AA until it profits them monitarily. If they find a way to make money on it, they will do something about it. If not, it will never be addressed.

 

And one last thing, all the so-called "fans" that keep getting offended because people ask questions about your program and school shouldn't be getting offended. With success, comes controversy. Get used to it. Success comes with a price. Take your panties off and put on your big boy pants and grow up. You aren't in high school anymore. At least I don't think you are!

This is hilarious. Did you not read my post??? We played up in classification anyway in ALL sports until 2007. That's why I DIDN'T SEE IT AS AN ADVANTAGE.... Camdens never played Alcoa so what's it to you. I can understand a CAK fan or even a Milan fan having an issue but a Camden fan. I can see you never have really done any research on Alcoa. Alcoa is in Blount County and Maryville is in that County as well. Alcoa/Maryville team would thrash a Carroll County all star team.

[STARSNBARS]

To be frank, outside of the school administration, I do not know who knows the real numbers. I surely don't know the real number.But if makes you happy, my son is out of zone. You have confirmed one! How's that for being truthful? Now, once again, come clean and state your real intent...to harm Alcoa football. You want T$$AA to do something about it. You want a multiplier added to Alcoa. BTW, go ahead, we beat the 6A teams so what's that going to prove? Most importantly, you want your program to have a chance at a State Champiionship. Who are you? Goodpasture, Camden, Milan? CAK? Loudon? Come clean.

Hear ewe go scots.....4th post down ort ta anser ye qwestion....

 

http://www.coacht.com/boards/index.php/topic/69943-heritage-football/page__hl__gerry+bertier__st__15

Edited September 20, 2010 by STARSNBARS

[faceforradio]

Here's the problem most folks have missed. A multiplier for open zoned schools would be like banning the dunk in college basketball because of one unique player. If open zoning were the only issue, then where are the other dominant programs? Alcoas success is the result of a convergence of several factor almost impossible to recreate.

1. The hiring practices of the Aluminum Co 100 yrs ago.

2. The location of the airport and the tax revenue it generates (quality education).

3. Add outside coaching with strong discipline and conditioning programs.

 

The result is what you get now. My point is, if you put a multiplier on open zone schools, Alcoa (Alcinder) will most likely still dominate, 4A schools will whine, and other open zone schools will whine when they have to move up. The bottom line is, to quote JFK, no one ever said life would be fair.

[Tornado74]

I am from Benton County, Tennessee. I support the Camden Lions. I never started this post to ruffle the feathers of the Alcoa faithful. If Camden makes it to the state title game this year and plays Alcoa and loses 99-0, I won't cry about it. I will be proud of the Lions regardless of the outcome.

 

The city of Alcoa, I am certain, has some fine atheletes. As do all cities in the state. Some more than others. But to say that open zoning has no "advantage" is proposterous. I mean, you take Carrol County, Tennessee for example. There are four High School systems in that county. Hollow Rock-Bruceton, Huntingdon, McKenzie, and West Carroll. If you took the top notch atheletes from each of these schools and let them play together, I beleive you could compete with ANY team in the state. There is ALOT of talent on these teams. But there is no OOZ there. I recall two years ago that the Milan team had a player that was going to their school that was out of zone and they were forced to forfeit every game he played in. He didn't want to play for the team for which he was zoned into. If you give players a choice to play in a mediocre program, or to play in a 5-star program, which do you think he will play for. Open zones is a great advantage, but completely and totally within the rules of the T$$AA.

 

The whole "Open Zone" issue will not be addressed by the T$$AA until it profits them monitarily. If they find a way to make money on it, they will do something about it. If not, it will never be addressed.

 

And one last thing, all the so-called "fans" that keep getting offended because people ask questions about your program and school shouldn't be getting offended. With success, comes controversy. Get used to it. Success comes with a price. Take your panties off and put on your big boy pants and grow up. You aren't in high school anymore. At least I don't think you are!

 

That's the argument you wanna use? You wanna take the top notch players from 4 schools in a county and pit them against the best? Do people not realize that Alcoa has to share Blount County with 3 other teams as well? One of which being 6a/4a Powerhouse Maryville? Have we forgotten how William Blount always seemed to finish 4th in their region only to seemingly always upset the #1 team in 5a during the first round of the playoffs? Clearly they must have some athletes in that program. Blount County just simply has athletes. Did you know in some places you can sit on your front yard and hear Alcoa games yet be zoned for William Blount? What do you think is cheaper, $100 a week in gas driving across town to school or $500 a year to just go to a school 5 minutes away? It was previously brought up and completely true. My freshman year in HS I was zoned for William Blount yet I lived off Air Base road......5 freaking minutes from Alcoa and completely across town from WB.

 

People act like if we didnt have open enrollment that our athletic programs would equal that of Heritage (sorry Mountaineer fans). That's not true at all. The majority of the athletes that come through Alcoa system LIVE and have always gone to Alcoa schools. Not to break it up into a racially diagram but between 95-100% of your African American Alcoa athletes were born and raised in either the Hall or Old Field communities....Both Alcoa zones. 90% of your white athletes were born and raised in the Springbrook and most recently the Green Meadow communities....both Alcoa Zoned. The last I heard Alcoa's enrollment was around 500 students. Do you really think we have THAT many open enrollment kids that play football? Who are they? The Tyson, Warren, Tallant, Isom etc...Those are Alcoa kids.

 

Then you get mad when Alcoa people get offended by basically calling us cheaters and want us to put our "big boy pants on". Why shouldn't we be offended/upset?

 

1)We're doing everything COMPLETELY legal and by the books

2)90% or more (probably around 97%) of our team is zoned Alcoa players.

 

You ended one of your last paragraphs with "If you gave a player an option to play for a mediocre program or a 5 star program, which do you think he would choose" Well I dont think there is much of an argument that WB and Heritage arent on the level of Alcoa and Maryville but 1)You never see either of them bitching and 2)There has been some great athletes come out of both schools, in ALL sports that could have went to a "5 star program".

[MLREB]

 

Couple of things 74.....

 

 

2)90% or more (probably around 97%) of our team is zoned Alcoa players.

 

So you are saying that there are at least 7 to 8 and probably only 3 OOZ players on Alcoa's roster? Talent is an Alcoa zoned player?

 

Well I dont think there is much of an argument that WB and Heritage arent on the level of Alcoa and Maryville

 

and Maryville is not on Alcoa's level?

 

Just curious.

[MLREB]

Hear ewe go scots.....4th post down ort ta anser ye qwestion....

 

http://www.coacht.com/boards/index.php/topic/69943-heritage-football/page__hl__gerry+bertier__st__15

 

 

Dang Stars....went back and read the linked thread. Brings back some memories. One thing is for sure. I have spent way to many years on CoachT.....

[my2cents]

Being from middle tn I find this thread amusing. You mean to tell me that Gary Rankin is coaching at a school where he can get kids from all over the county ( OOZ ) and even out of the county ( OOC ) if they pay a tuition fee? Turn the clock back about 15 years and listen to all his crying about a little middle tn school that did the same thing, but they did not stay in the classification they belonged (1A or 2A) played up and beat his mighty warriors for the 1995 5A state title. With him leading the charge Div II was created. The next year the "little school that could" turned around and beat Jefferson County for 5A title in 1996. Now if you can get kids OOZ and OOC what is the difference between this school and a private school? Privates may give financial aid, but if it cost 500-1250 in tuition for out of county kids to attend and it cost about 6,000.00 to educate a child per year could you not call the 5,500-4,750 difference financial aid? The money has to come from somewhere. So instead of coming from the school in Div II it comes from the county or the state at Garys school. I just find it amusing that after all he did to get the little school that could out he is doing the exact same thing only using taxpayer/county/state money to do it. If you can't beat em, kick em out, move, and do the same thing they were doing.

[Tornado74]

 

 

Couple of things 74.....

 

 

2)90% or more (probably around 97%) of our team is zoned Alcoa players.

 

So you are saying that there are at least 7 to 8 and probably only 3 OOZ players on Alcoa's roster? Talent is an Alcoa zoned player?

 

Well I dont think there is much of an argument that WB and Heritage arent on the level of Alcoa and Maryville

 

and Maryville is not on Alcoa's level?

 

Just curious.

 

Of course Maryville isnt on Alcoa's level...

 

Jk, no I dont see where you got that, it may have just been the way I worded it. I usually put Maryville and Alcoa right at the top of any lists.

 

My percentages are not going to be 100% accurate but I think we all know that Alcoa isnt filled with a crap ton of tuition football players like many want to believe. Here's how even the uneducated can tell (by just doing some research)

 

Alcoa has an enrollment of 513 student. Of those 513 students 308 are on either Free, Low Cost or Reduced Lunch. Do you REALLY think that a student that is in that category is paying to go to school? That leaves up with aprox 205 students. The male to female ratio is 56% Male to 44% female. So technically half of the school is female. You could drop that figure down to 100 students if you wanted (probably isnt an accurate number but I bet not too far off). With that being said, Im sure most Alcoa fans could vouch for many of the names on the Alcoa roster, while I assume Tallent is an Alcoa kid, since as far as I know he's been in the school system for YEARS, many like Tyson, Warren and Isom we obviously know are Alcoa kids. Honestly if Alcoa has 100 players on the roster and you told me more then 10 were OOZ players. Id be completely surprised. Especially if those players actually received any sort of significant playing time.

[MLREB]

Of course Maryville isnt on Alcoa's level...

 

Jk, no I dont see where you got that, it may have just been the way I worded it. I usually put Maryville and Alcoa right at the top of any lists.

 

My percentages are not going to be 100% accurate but I think we all know that Alcoa isnt filled with a crap ton of tuition football players like many want to believe. Here's how even the uneducated can tell (by just doing some research)

 

Alcoa has an enrollment of 513 student. Of those 513 students 308 are on either Free, Low Cost or Reduced Lunch. Do you REALLY think that a student that is in that category is paying to go to school? That leaves up with aprox 205 students. The male to female ratio is 56% Male to 44% female. So technically half of the school is female. You could drop that figure down to 100 students if you wanted (probably isnt an accurate number but I bet not too far off). With that being said, Im sure most Alcoa fans could vouch for many of the names on the Alcoa roster, while I assume Tallent is an Alcoa kid, since as far as I know he's been in the school system for YEARS, many like Tyson, Warren and Isom we obviously know are Alcoa kids. Honestly if Alcoa has 100 players on the roster and you told me more then 10 were OOZ players. Id be completely surprised. Especially if those players actually received any sort of significant playing time.

 

 

WOW....74. You need to do some serious research because you are not even close.