Baylor vs Bradley

[tribal55]

Great post daisy. And your right BC has been the only team to continue to do what they do, and that's win. But I do think B

C run is about to end after this year.

[ynotme]

And that's pretty much why we have the split. DII did not want to follow orders so they decided to do their own thing. And that leads us back to why Bradley won't wrestle baylor or mccallie

 

It has been made clear several times that the bears or any other team are entitled to schedule whomever they choose - no debate there.

 

Since the bears have wrestled other DII programs, the split is not why the bears won't wrestle Bay or the EBE. I welcome correction if this is inaccurate, but I recall the bears quit wrestling the EBE after the EBE was given the death penalty by the TSSAA. I recall the bears continued to wrestle Bay until Brad Lane decided to attend Bay.

Edited February 11, 2011 by ynotme

[ynotme]

Did any of you attend the Bradley/Soddy match several weeks ago? Packed house and Rockin'! How about the Bradley/Cleveland Dual at the Cleveland Dome? Packed and Rockin'!

 

Yes, they were exciting matches and great experiences for all the wrestlers involved. From my judgement (no actual numbers to substantiate my opinion), the Bay / EBE dual was even louder and better attended and also was a great experience for all the wrestlers involved. No matter which school they attend, all these wrestlers work very hard to have success and I for one think rewarding their hard work with the experience of these type of dual meets is worthy of discussion with no reason I can understand to limit the number of those type of duals.

 

I suspect a Bay / bears dual would easily out-draw any other dual in the state and have the most vocal fans providing a wonderful experience for the wrestlers involved. That's why this topic never goes away as its illogical why these duals continue to not happen.

[texas23]

Yes, they were exciting matches and great experiences for all the wrestlers involved. From my judgement (no actual numbers to substantiate my opinion), the Bay / EBE dual was even louder and better attended and also was a great experience for all the wrestlers involved. No matter which school they attend, all these wrestlers work very hard to have success and I for one think rewarding their hard work with the experience of these type of dual meets is worthy of discussion with no reason I can understand to limit the number of those type of duals.

 

I suspect a Bay / bears dual would easily out-draw any other dual in the state and have the most vocal fans providing a wonderful experience for the wrestlers involved. That's why this topic never goes away as its illogical why these duals continue to not happen.

 

 

I certainly would like to see this match up as well. And I do not blame Baylor or McCallie (although I hear very little on here from them about this subject), for wanting this match up. And here is one reason I believe they would like this match up. It validates their division. Hold on a second, here is why I think that. The TSSAA championship for D2 is probably the one of the weakest tournaments that any of the top four teams in d2 has all year long. Really, it is mostly a quad meet for bragging rights to a championship in Tennessee. It is just the way it is with the TSSAA being run by D1 representatives, look what they have done to the private schools. But, if they can wrestle the school or schools that win the D1 team championships, well that sure validates who has the best team in Tennessee, especially after winning the big time quad of a championship that D2 really is.

 

I do not agree that the way things are is illogical. There is logic behind the reason that Bradley chooses not to wrestle certain schools. You do not have to agree with it, but it IS there.

[2blLeg]

I certainly would like to see this match up as well. And I do not blame Baylor or McCallie (although I hear very little on here from them about this subject), for wanting this match up. And here is one reason I believe they would like this match up. It validates their division. Hold on a second, here is why I think that. The TSSAA championship for D2 is probably the one of the weakest tournaments that any of the top four teams in d2 has all year long. Really, it is mostly a quad meet for bragging rights to a championship in Tennessee. It is just the way it is with the TSSAA being run by D1 representatives, look what they have done to the private schools. But, if they can wrestle the school or schools that win the D1 team championships, well that sure validates who has the best team in Tennessee, especially after winning the big time quad of a championship that D2 really is.

 

I do not agree that the way things are is illogical. There is logic behind the reason that Bradley chooses not to wrestle certain schools. You do not have to agree with it, but it IS there.

 

That's nonsense. No DII school is trying to validate anything. Every school wrestles in the division they are assigned to by the TSSAA. And if you ask me, there were 4 teams in DII that were top quality teams, and only 3 in DI. So no one is trying validate anything. And on top of that, Everyone ended up wrestling everyone for the most part with the exception of one school. Not that I care, wrestle who you want. Win your division and be done with it. But to say that any school needs to validate their championship is just nonsense. EVERY state has seperate divisions, and I don't see any of this nonsense talk on their boards. They wrestle what's in front of them, and move on.

[ynotme]

And I do not blame Baylor or McCallie (although I hear very little on here from them about this subject), for wanting this match up.

 

I disagree as my impression is more of this discussion comes from the D2 camps then from the bear's camp.

 

 

It validates their division.

 

I agree with 2blLeg - Bay schedules outstanding competition. One more duel meet against another outstanding program such as the bears validates nothing for Bay.

 

I do not agree that the way things are is illogical. There is logic behind the reason that Bradley chooses not to wrestle certain schools. You do not have to agree with it, but it IS there.

 

It is your right to disagree just as its the bear's right to schedule whomever they please, I still fail to see the logic involved. The decision is based on past events. That does not make it logical nor does it have to be logical as there is no moral or legal mandate to be 100% logical. Nobody has anything to lose and the WRESTLERS and wrestling fans have a great event to enjoy. It's hard to comprehend what is validated or jepordized by scheduling these duals.

 

The bears and Bay run two of the most successful programs in the southeast graduating numerous fine young men each year along with placing many successful wrestlers at the next level. However they go about it, they're both doing something right.

[texas23]

I disagree as my impression is more of this discussion comes from the D2 camps then from the bear's camp.

 

 

I think you misunderstood my comment, I meant to communicate that McCallie seems to squeek the least amount about the subject of Bradley not being willing to wrestle their team. Sorry for the less than stellar way that said that in the first place.

 

 

 

 

I agree with 2blLeg - Bay schedules outstanding competition. One more duel meet against another outstanding program such as the bears validates nothing for Bay.

 

I do not think that Baylor (the school or coaches) are the ones crying for this dual, I think it is the parents and fans of Baylor that want it. But like I said, I believe this is the case and because it is an opinion....

 

 

It is your right to disagree just as its the bear's right to schedule whomever they please, I still fail to see the logic involved. The decision is based on past events. That does not make it logical nor does it have to be logical as there is no moral or legal mandate to be 100% logical. Nobody has anything to lose and the WRESTLERS and wrestling fans have a great event to enjoy. It's hard to comprehend what is validated or jepordized by scheduling these duals.

 

I do disagree. I am not even sure where "moral" and "legal" come into this discussion, but okay. And saying it was based on past events seems kind of odd as well, what decisions are not based on something that occurred in the past?

 

The bears and Bay run two of the most successful programs in the southeast graduating numerous fine young men each year along with placing many successful wrestlers at the next level. However they go about it, they're both doing something right.

 

No argument here. BTW, I would like to see them wrestle every year as well, but because they do not means not one thing either way.

[cbg]

That's nonsense. No DII school is trying to validate anything. Every school wrestles in the division they are assigned to by the TSSAA. And if you ask me, there were 4 teams in DII that were top quality teams, and only 3 in DI. So no one is trying validate anything. And on top of that, Everyone ended up wrestling everyone for the most part with the exception of one school. Not that I care, wrestle who you want. Win your division and be done with it. But to say that any school needs to validate their championship is just nonsense. EVERY state has seperate divisions, and I don't see any of this nonsense talk on their boards. They wrestle what's in front of them, and move on.

 

Not that it is a big deal but California only has one (1) division for wrestling.

 

As for Bradley Central and Baylor not wrestling each other in a dual, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to compete against the best but it's their program and they can run it any way that they wish. One thing that people are not talking about is the coaches poll. While it's only the opinion of a few coaches, I fail to understand the logic of how you can rank one team at the top or near the top when they refuse to compete against the best teams in their own state.

Edited February 11, 2011 by cbg

[csemary]

Not that it is a big deal but California only has one (1) division for wrestling.

 

As for Bradley Central and Baylor not wrestling each other in a dual, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to compete against the best but it's their program and they can run it any way that they wish. One thing that people are not talking about is the coaches poll. While it's only the opinion of a few coaches, I fail to understand the logic of how you can rank one team at the top or near the top when they refuse to compete against the best teams in their own state.

 

Who cares about the coaches poll. As far as most people I know regardless if its Bradley on top or Baylor it means nothing. It is also the only poll I know of in Tennessee that doesn't rank the teams according to their classification. By the way Bradley does wrestle the top teams in Tennessee, they wrestle Soddy Daisy, Cleveland, Ooltewah, etc...

[texas23]

Not that it is a big deal but California only has one (1) division for wrestling.

 

As for Bradley Central and Baylor not wrestling each other in a dual, I don't understand the logic of not wanting to compete against the best but it's their program and they can run it any way that they wish. One thing that people are not talking about is the coaches poll. While it's only the opinion of a few coaches, I fail to understand the logic of how you can rank one team at the top or near the top when they refuse to compete against the best teams in their own state.

 

 

You are right about the poll. But I am not sure how you handicap a team because they did not face another team? Does that mean their wrestlers are less than before that consideration? Could be, I guess.

 

I bet the Baylor fans were very excited when early in the season they won against Soddy. Then they were more elated when Soddy beat the Bears on the Bears home turf! Validated their contention of being the best in the state. And then the heartbreak of it all when the most current dual result between Soddy and the Bears ends up in the other direction and more questions about how good is Baylor really. LOL....drives them nuts.

[ynotme]

My bad on the misunderstanding. The EBE only has a single poster on this board so I would submit that as the reason less comes from their camp.

 

Rarely are there ever any coaches on this forum complaining about other coaches. I'm sure whatever is communicated between these staffs is done so directly. I believe if you took a poll, there would as many wrestling fans in general not affiliated with Bay asking for this match as there are Bay fans and parents asking. Just my impression and I may be wrong.

 

I used "moral or legal" in an attempt to stay away from someone being accused of being "right or wrong" which is where this debate typically goes. While history has a way of repeating itself if we ignore it, most decisions are for future events. Things change. We don't invest based on how a stock performed 10 years ago but rather where we expect it to head in the future. The US is now allies with some countries we battled against in the past. Life would be too easy if the answers to all the questions lay in past events.

 

My interest lies in rewarding the wrestlers whenever possible for the hard work it takes to be successful.

 

Tex - I've enjoyed the debate, best of luck.

[takedown3]

My bad on the misunderstanding. The EBE only has a single poster on this board so I would submit that as the reason less comes from their camp.

 

Rarely are there ever any coaches on this forum complaining about other coaches. I'm sure whatever is communicated between these staffs is done so directly. I believe if you took a poll, there would as many wrestling fans in general not affiliated with Bay asking for this match as there are Bay fans and parents asking. Just my impression and I may be wrong.

 

I used "moral or legal" in an attempt to stay away from someone being accused of being "right or wrong" which is where this debate typically goes. While history has a way of repeating itself if we ignore it, most decisions are for future events. Things change. We don't invest based on how a stock performed 10 years ago but rather where we expect it to head in the future. The US is now allies with some countries we battled against in the past. Life would be too easy if the answers to all the questions lay in past events.

 

My interest lies in rewarding the wrestlers whenever possible for the hard work it takes to be successful.

 

Tex - I've enjoyed the debate, best of luck.

Great post! I had completely missed the geopolitical and macro economic reasons for a B and BC match. I was selfishly only considering what a great spectacle it would be.