Is CPA In Trouble?

[ThrillaNvanilla]

TRUE TRUE TRUE Very well written and very accurate all the way down to let us employ the parent to get their athletic kid.

 

Its all a game of winning!!!!Win at all cost

[5-Sport Dad]

KB, I'm prayin' for ya, too...that you'll forgive these hypocrites!

 

Another 'observation'...it's funny how the DL poster likes to brag about how they've been able to 'home grow' all their talent and still win so much in all sports...like you've got it figured out. Didn't y'all get trounced by almost 40 and 30, respectively, this year by CPA? Man! I'll bet that'll humble a CofC brotha...in a hurry!

[Redog]

It is a nice idea, nice litte theory, but not one necessarily supported by the facts. It is one that gets circulated around quite a bit and one high school parents like to perpetuate as too many take the responsibility off how good their child actually is and place the responsibility on the high school coach. They end up thinking it is up to the HS coach to market the child's ability and put the pressure on the coach. (e.g. If my child is not getting recruited by college coaches, must be the coach's fault.) Speaking as someone who coached in college, both small and D1, it does not make much of a difference, particularly in this day and age. It doesn't really matter where great players play, college coaches are interested in great players regardless of who they play for and college coaches have a way of finding them. Quite an extensive list of great players and it didn't matter who they played for in HS. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a great player who was passed over because of their HS coach or they didn't play for the right coach. Loved to hear about those players to the contrary where it was all about the coach they played for in HS.

I would "think" that a h.s. coach that has played division 1 at a local university would have at least the "ear" of a college coach - at any level, especially in the case of say 2 players from 2 different schools that maybe have the same ability or fit for what a college coach may be looking for. To me it's just "maybe" a tie breaker - and some players/parents want that advantage - if one at all. If you "are" a great player - they will find you - that's the college coach's job. The "lesser" of a player that you are, to me, the more you need a h.s. coach that has a good program, has been around a while, and has many contacts/college coaches, and has had players play in his program and that have gone on to play in college at any level Div 1,2,or 3 or NAIA. And I wonder if a h.s. coach is not as good as a lot of folks say he is for whatever reason - why would kids want to/or seem to come and play for him? Does not make sense to me. Recruit/transfer? Privates and Publics all do it - that's why they have rules for it.

[kbrks]

I would "think" that a h.s. coach that has played division 1 at a local university would have at least the "ear" of a college coach - at any level, especially in the case of say 2 players from 2 different schools that maybe have the same ability or fit for what a college coach may be looking for. To me it's just "maybe" a tie breaker - and some players/parents want that advantage - if one at all. If you "are" a great player - they will find you - that's the college coach's job. The "lesser" of a player that you are, to me, the more you need a h.s. coach that has a good program, has been around a while, and has many contacts/college coaches, and has had players play in his program and that have gone on to play in college at any level Div 1,2,or 3 or NAIA...

One would think wouldn't they, but the reality doesn't necessarily support it, there are too many dynamics involved in the college recruiting process. Don't forget now the original response was to the post that used the term "great (hs) players." And secondly, how many college scholarships have been secured due to the HS coach for the "lesser" players. Do you have any names?

[sportsnutdad]

KB, I'm prayin' for ya, too...that you'll forgive these hypocrites!

 

Another 'observation'...it's funny how the DL poster likes to brag about how they've been able to 'home grow' all their talent and still win so much in all sports...like you've got it figured out. Didn't y'all get trounced by almost 40 and 30, respectively, this year by CPA? Man! I'll bet that'll humble a CofC brotha...in a hurry!

Well you're right in that the CPA has beaten us soundly this year. (However, I would argue that they are basically a regional AAU team.) But, to my point about more than one sport, and doing it the right way. If you go to the TSSAA website, and run queries on Team Champions (go ahead and include Team Runners-up) so as to show a high degree of success. Let's just start at 2000 until present. CPA has a total of 10 across 4 sports, and Lipscomb has a total of 30 across 12 sports. The break down is below:

 

*Total Team Champions or Runners-up since 2000*

 

Lipscomb

6 in Girls Cross Country

5 in Football

4 in Baseball

3 in Boys Track, Girls Tennis

2 in Boys Golf, Boys Tennis

1 in Boys Cross Country, Girls Softball, Girls Golf, Girls Volleyball, Girls Track

 

CPA

4 in Boys Golf

2 in Football, Girls Tennis, Girls Soccer

 

I didn't go back past 2000, but Lipscomb has a championship in Boys and Girls basketball, but not recently. Also, did you ever hear of Clyde Lee? Probably, one of the best basketball players to ever come out of Tennessee. He played at Lipscomb, before going on to Vanderbilt and the NBA.

[sportfreak]

One would think wouldn't they, but the reality doesn't necessarily support it, there are too many dynamics involved in the college recruiting process. Don't forget now the original response was to the post that used the term "great (hs) players." And secondly, how many college scholarships have been secured due to the HS coach for the "lesser" players. Do you have any names?

I'd say not many scholarships have been obtained for the "lesser" player. The opportunity to play should be the first desire; a scholarship would be the icing on the cake.

[CPA4Ever]

I do not know all the various motivations that come into play for the players and their parents that end up at CPA - no one does, although some posters think they do.

As a former athlete and parent/grandparent of athletes, I do know that all athletes desire to be part of a talented, winning team that has a chance to compete for high rankings and championships, and a desire to play with the best teammates they can. Most players would rather play a smaller role with great teammates than be a star on a lesser team. That is true at all levels (case inpoint: Pros:Lebron,Wade, Bosh, college:Kentucky basketball; high school: Alcoa/Maryville).

I actually think that is more of a factor than the coach, recruiting, school, etc. although I do think the combination of what CPA offers the kid in that regard combined with what the school offers the parent (solid Christian based private education) attracts the good players.

[ksgovols]

There's an exploitation of kids that is going on regardless of how we spin it. And yeah, the parents are in it up to their necks. I feel sorry for some of them that are getting pulled in every direction under the guise of 'for the kids'. I wouldn't limit it to just private schools though, it's everywhere. Why do they have open zones? As long as a parent is willing to move, change apartments or whatever, there will be schools that will accommodate them. Parents will manipulate their Little League sign up forms because their kid can only play for Coach so and so or they have a travel issue or fill in the blank here. Rarely do parents with any means at all just let the chips fall where they may. They exploit their child's athletic ability to gain the maximum advantage, real or imagined, that they can get away with. How many of these parents would have been better off to take the money they've spent on their kids athletic endeavors and put it in the bank? Many could have payed for the college education they are trying to earn just by folding up their money and sticking it in their pocket.

 

On the flip side, school's that can 'attract' these kind of kids are going to exploit that by hiring coaches that will win games, increase their schools visibility and viability and do it under the rules as written and with the parents full blessing. Some of these coaches don't even teach a class. I know that Rush Probst from Two a Days fame went to a public school in Georgia for a salary of around $100k to just coach football and he's lobbying to get all of his assistant coaches teaching duties reduced or eliminated so that they can concentrate on just coaching high school football. What is wrong with this picture?

 

I don't think there is a fix. It's a societal issue, win at all costs, concentrate on this one sport that might get your marginally gifted or above average athlete into some college. Any college. There's no 3 sport athletes because the coaches for their sport have to have them all year or they have to be playing AAU ball to get 'noticed' or some guru has told them they have a better shot in sport A than in sport B. Face it, the best athlete on your team would be the best athlete in the other sports too given the same opportunities and choices. It's ego driven and it's wrong. Let the kids play.

[kbrks]

... Most players would rather play a smaller role with great teammates than be a star on a lesser team. That is true at all levels (case inpoint: Pros:Lebron,Wade, Bosh, college:Kentucky basketball; high school: Alcoa/Maryville)...

Now which one of those great players had to accept a smaller role to play on a great team? Possibly a different role (I don't need to shoot as much), but not a smaller role which is usually defined in terms of PT - playing time. And normally that is going to be after their chance in the spotlight, part of growth and maturity, which is not the case in HS. I would have to disagree in this day and age with "Most players" unless it is a teeny,tiny bit of a smaller role as compared to a small role. Most players would rather play than sit the bench or play very little. Those parents may be clapping on the outside, but if they don't see their "baby" on the floor, I wonder how content they really are since no matter how it is wrapped, the high majority of issues with parents in HS are related to PT (unless they are in agreement with the coach on their child's abilities).

 

Agree, there are many motivations, but take out the one that says it is the HS coach who is the difference whether or not the student-athlete gets a college scholarship. I will give the benefit of the doubt and use the term "rarely" as opposed to the term never, but it is so rare should not be used as a consideration. Coaches take a look at the individual or the team because of the players, not who is on the sideline. It is up to the individual player to earn his college scholarship based on ability, test scores, and attitude lining up with a college program's needs and parents should quit placing that responsibility on his or her HS coach.

Edited February 15, 2012 by kbrks

[Redog]

There's an exploitation of kids that is going on regardless of how we spin it. And yeah, the parents are in it up to their necks. I feel sorry for some of them that are getting pulled in every direction under the guise of 'for the kids'. I wouldn't limit it to just private schools though, it's everywhere. Why do they have open zones? As long as a parent is willing to move, change apartments or whatever, there will be schools that will accommodate them. Parents will manipulate their Little League sign up forms because their kid can only play for Coach so and so or they have a travel issue or fill in the blank here. Rarely do parents with any means at all just let the chips fall where they may. They exploit their child's athletic ability to gain the maximum advantage, real or imagined, that they can get away with. How many of these parents would have been better off to take the money they've spent on their kids athletic endeavors and put it in the bank? Many could have payed for the college education they are trying to earn just by folding up their money and sticking it in their pocket.

 

On the flip side, school's that can 'attract' these kind of kids are going to exploit that by hiring coaches that will win games, increase their schools visibility and viability and do it under the rules as written and with the parents full blessing. Some of these coaches don't even teach a class. I know that Rush Probst from Two a Days fame went to a public school in Georgia for a salary of around $100k to just coach football and he's lobbying to get all of his assistant coaches teaching duties reduced or eliminated so that they can concentrate on just coaching high school football. What is wrong with this picture?

 

I don't think there is a fix. It's a societal issue, win at all costs, concentrate on this one sport that might get your marginally gifted or above average athlete into some college. Any college. There's no 3 sport athletes because the coaches for their sport have to have them all year or they have to be playing AAU ball to get 'noticed' or some guru has told them they have a better shot in sport A than in sport B. Face it, the best athlete on your team would be the best athlete in the other sports too given the same opportunities and choices. It's ego driven and it's wrong. Let the kids play.

Exploitation? Not so sure.. Check out Tebow book "Through My Eyes" Home- schooler going to little Christian school, and was "in line" to be starting QB as a Sr - prior years they had him playing linebacker just because he was so big and strong/but he wanted to play QB. He and his dad start going to visit other schools - moves in apt within new school zone with mom(his teacher) went by all the rules... and u know the rest of the story. Exception/yes - Exploitation/no

[ksgovols]

Come on. There's a book about it. Nobody's making money?

 

Sure, there will be exceptions to every rule. In general, kids are exploited because of their athletic abilities from the time they first distinguish themselves from the rest of the crowd. Most of the people that can benefit from the kid's ability, take full advantage of it. The definition of exploitation. What can this kid do for me? How many high school coaches at a public school would tell a phenom that he would benefit by going to this private school or that prep school because the academics are better and they have more college contacts? How many private school coaches would tell a kid that he's better off staying in the environment he's in because the social adjustment and financial burden is too much for him to ask? None of them will. And if somebody thinks they can make a dollar off of him? Katy bar the door. It's become a kid brokering system and it stinks.

[CPA4Ever]

Now which one of those great players had to accept a smaller role to play on a great team? Possibly a different role (I don't need to shoot as much), but not a smaller role which is usually defined in terms of PT - playing time. And normally that is going to be after their chance in the spotlight, part of growth and maturity, which is not the case in HS. I would have to disagree in this day and age with "Most players" unless it is a teeny,tiny bit of a smaller role as compared to a small role. Most players would rather play than sit the bench or play very little. Those parents may be clapping on the outside, but if they don't see their "baby" on the floor, I wonder how content they really are since no matter how it is wrapped, the high majority of issues with parents in HS are related to PT (unless they are in agreement with the coach on their child's abilities).

 

Agree, there are many motivations, but take out the one that says it is the HS coach who is the difference whether or not the student-athlete gets a college scholarship. I will give the benefit of the doubt and use the term "rarely" as opposed to the term never, but it is so rare should not be used as a consideration. Coaches take a look at the individual or the team because of the players, not who is on the sideline. It is up to the individual player to earn his college scholarship based on ability, test scores, and attitude lining up with a college program's needs and parents should quit placing that responsibility on his or her HS coach.

We can agree to disagree, but how can you dispute that any player who signs with a top college program (Duke, Ky., Kansas, etc.) does so fully aware they may not play as soon, as much, or score as much as they would going to a lesser team or mid-major?

And the coach and the perception of how he can help the athlete is a factor in kids and parents choosing a school. May not be a correct perception, but it is a perception, otherwise, why do players jump ship at schools when coaches leave? The question on this thread is not does the coach help a good athlete get a scholorship, but does the kid and parents think it will help.