I'm Back!

[ELA]

As promised... after the season I would be back in this debate. I would like to start this debate by saying I have nothing against private schools or private education. If I lived in some parts of Tennessee's larger inner-cities and could afford to send my kids to a private school, I would at least consider it. If they paid more for teachers and assistant coaches I might even consider working at a private school. Having said that, I am still in favor of a change in our current classification of high schools in Tennessee. As a football coach, I would like to see ONE of the following things happen:

 

1. All private schools in DII and all public schools in D1. Magnet and charter schools could also be placed in DII if that makes things more equitable?

 

2. All public and private schools reunited in Tennessee, reducing our current class system from 8 to 6 and adding a multiplier effect (1.5-1.7) to adjust for equity between public, and private, magnet, and future charter schools.

 

At least 17 other states use one of these methods and I think it would end the debate and create a more competitive environment. Better schools would play each other and the TSSAA would not lose any revenue! These are reasonable suggestions that all but only a few would object to!

[Indian]

I like the first one. There are ways of determing what class a magnet school like Tyner should be but I will do everyone a favor and not go into that again . Travel would be easier than it is now for most of the current Division II teams such as Baylor (going to Memphis and Memphis teams going to Chattanooga). St. Andrew's Sewanee could play Nashville small schools instead of such long trips too. I say 4 classes in Division I, possibly 5 if there are any 8 or 9 team regions (that's just too much) and 3 in Division II with a total split.

[Edited by Indian on 11-2-02 10:18A]

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Welcome back, ELA...I'm in favor of a total split.

 

3 classes for publics, and 2 for privates...that way the whiners keep losing, AND more importantly, we really know who the cream of the crop is.

[Indian]

I would have liked 3 in Division I except with all of the private schools gone except with a lot of them out you'd have too many teams playing against schools twice as large. I think they biggest gap would be in the middle division, a Class AA group. You'd have some in AAA too when teams play Oakland, Riverdale, Bradley but when a school had 1,000 or 1,200 there should be enough potential talent in the school to play against most any other public school, on the average. Using Bledsoe for an example, they probably have 450 students but they'd likely be in there with schools that have 900. They are in basketball with East Ridge and Hixson. As for Division II, there would be around 45 teams total counting new teams like Temple and the new Catholic school in Nashville (I can never remember the name), would you be for 22 in each of 2 classes? If so, there would be huge mismatches when the smallest Division II AA teams played McCallie, MBA and Brentwood Academy. Lipscomb and Notre Dame, with enrollments close to Baylor, should be able to compete but not schools with 300 people most of the time.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Hellooooooooooooooooo ELA!

 

Just wanted you to clarify what you are terming magnet schools. Are you including schools like Maryville and South Greene who technically are magnet schools, but have open zones?

 

VG

[VolunteerGeneral]

Posted by TheEgoHasLanded:

Welcome back, ELA...I'm in favor of a total split.

 

3 classes for publics, and 2 for privates...that way the whiners keep losing, AND more importantly, we really know who the cream of the crop is.

 

 

 

EGO....The split won`t happen. I think the more it is talked about however, there may be some changes at sometime in the future, but it won`t be a total split.

[Edited by VolunteerGeneral on 11-2-02 10:49A]

 

[ELA]

Whatever is deemed to be fair, that is if we judge a school with an open zone to be having the same "advantage" as a private school without a zone, then an adjustment should be made. I want a fair and equitable playing field, in as much as we can create one through regulations. Not one where a weak team wins more games, but one that is fair to the "MOST" schools possible. If a multiplier is the best way to go, so be it... if it is a split, so be that, but what we have now is not the best we can do! We now crown too many champions and I would like to see it reduced from 8 to 6 state champions in either of the methods prescribed in my previous posting. Good people can disagree on this subject and I respect everyones right to disagree... but I know the majority of coaches in Tennessee dislike what we have and I think this may be the year for change.

[VolunteerGeneral]

ELA....If there is a way to improve our system that most can agree with then I`m not opposed to it as long as it equally applies to all schools. You may not like the fact that there are some private schools that have become really good, but I think you can see that singling out only private schools is not really a fair and just change. The only real difference is the ability to get kids from a larger area. You can throw out arguments like fan support, money, better facilities and the like because in reality all schools have the same opportunities. No one can stop how much any school spends or supports their team. Just like no on can regulate how much extra work individuals who play put in on their own time. The real difference involves area. We must decide if this is an advantage more than it is a difference. It effects a lot of teams. Some schools it may help more than others. but if you use this as the basis for a change, then you must apply it to all schools who have it. If you don`t (or if the TSSAA doesn`t) then it opens up a world of potential lawsuits.

 

Education seems to be changing. There are more and more schools and school systems allowed to broaden their area of students in the interest of giving them a choice of where they want to get an education. Personally as a parent I think this is a great thing. (Just for example only) If Clay county didn`t spend much time or put much money into their schools, wouldn`t it be great as a Clay County parent that you could send your kids 10 or 15 miles away to another county`s school that has really emphasized and spent the necessary money to educate their kids?

 

Education and giving parents some type of choice is first and foremost. Sports don`t even come close. The trend seems to be more and more toward some type of choice in public education and the TSSAA has to grow along and adjust with it. Two magnet schools will open next year in Jackson alone. As more choices are offered in terms of public education, then ultimately it will affect sports.

[ELA]

What you seem to be talking about is vouchers, something 99% of all teachers oppose in Tennessee. I do not want to see my tax dollars going into faith-based schools. I don't mind it going into county managed charter schools, but not private corporations or church schools. Charter schools may be a better solution but only time will tell. One of the fundamental freedoms in America has been to prevent the state from endorsing any religion as "THE" religion. This is why as a nation we respect all religions and religious freedoms. I do agree that classifing schools the way we do now (by student body population) isn't very fair. Another possible solution might be to adopt a system like I have advocated in the past that does away with all classifications, but again, who knows where this will lead. It would be nice to see Tennessee creating a new path for other states to follow. One that takes many more factors into consideration than just student population or private/public status.

[VolunteerGeneral]

ELA..I didn`t say a word about vouchers which is a totally different subject. I`m talking about schools like the ones in Memphis that can get kids from all over the city of Memphis, plus Shelby County and even out of state kids. I`m talking about schools like Maryville that accept kids from out of county. They even charge for these kids to come. Granted the 1800 dollars is not that much compared to what one must pay to attend a private school, but isn`t it so neat that a public school has kids that pay to attend. (In fact that is really funny since I`ve been saying that public schools need to improve and that if they were good enough that people would come and yet you and others still wanted to say I was wrong. Saying that we poor public schools are just limited to the kids in our zone! Ahhhh, but that`s another argument for another time.) I`m talking about schools like South Greene who has 30% of their kids from out of their zone. I`m talking about schools like Austin East, Hume Fogg, Tyner and others. No this isn`t about vouchers and something that isn`t happening, but this is about what is going on now in public education and the trend toward expanding horizons and opening up their borders to offer something that they feel will benefit more kids in terms of education.

I`m saying that the TSSAA has no power whatsoever to control how local school systems wish to run their schools. They just have to adjust with the times if adjustments are necessary.

[RHSfan]

VolunteerGeneral

I think your last two posts were very good!! I have read a lot of your posts re:public-private debate and havn't agreed with most of what you have said. These last two posts.....I agree wholeheartedly.

[VolunteerGeneral]

RHS...Thanks.

 

VG(who thinks RHS`s post made my day)