RUNNING THE SCORE UP...2013 Edition

[trebs]

Here's my issue with your arguments Kazaam, and I mean this with all due respect, but it sounds like the only solution for making things "equal" and "level" for teams like the one you support to have a chance at a title is to water down the division a great deal. I understand about the money and your school's pool of players, etc., but getting the CAKs and NDs out of your division would in no way make your team better. Or, am I missing something? And, would you really be proud to win a title that way? Participation medals get shoved in the back of the drawer or left in the parking lot by the kids. They know....

 

I agree that moving the CAK's and the ND's out of A-AA will not make anyone else better.  My question to the CAK's and the ND's, what are you doing to make yourself better?  Are you trying to move up to a higher classification to push yourselves?  Winning in AAA or Division II would certainly be more of a challenge for you.

 

Have any schools lobbied TSSAA to allow schools to move up in classification in single sports?

[Booger]

I agree that moving the CAK's and the ND's out of A-AA will not make anyone else better.  My question to the CAK's and the ND's, what are you doing to make yourself better?  Are you trying to move up to a higher classification to push yourselves?

Let me see....

 

Maryville - AAA

Farragut - AAA

Oak Ridge - AAA

Station Camp - AAA

Ooltewah - AAA

Blackman - AAA

Oakland - AAA

Bearden - AAA

Germantown - AAA

Harden Valley - AAA

Soddy Daisey - AAA

Science Hill - AAA

Arlington - AAA

GPS iv II-AA

Baylor - Div II-AA

St Georges - Div II-A

University School of Jackson - Div II-A

Briarcrest Christian - Div II-A

Knox Catholic - A-AA (When they were AAA)

CAK - A-AA

 

...schedules like this gets you ready for the post season

 

...Strength and Conditioning program throughout the week; foot skills training 2 to 3 times /wk in the off-season, club soccer practice 3 times /wk during that season, daily prayer at school (catholics call it mass), and pedicures 1 time /month with Daddy

[Impactdad22]

There really is no point in arguing with someone who just wants a handout. Hard work isn't enough for these people. They'd just rather sit back and cry "woe is me. Life ain't fair. Blah, Blah." Spare me the drivel or come up with the solution. And don't you dare pretend to know where I or my family comes from because, brother, you have no idea.

Mr. Kazam, like ChattCannon so eloquently stated, you don't know me or my family or where we play and I bet you don't know where most of these fellow soccer-fans reside.  We are all just passionate about the sport our children play and feel sorry for whiners who will NEVER be happy because the system will never be fair.  Our family has so many "participation medals and trophies" that our kids received when they were younger than 8, we have been donating them to local tournaments for giveaways.  Not sure if you are only talking about A-AA but thank goodness we are not in that class.  Our school plays all-comers from all divisions (Franklin, Clarksville, Brentwood - AAA: CPA, Page - A-AA; BGA, USN, FRA - Div. II-A and Father Ryan, GPS, Harpeth Hall, Baylor - Div. II-AA).  As Booger so rightfully noted, schedules like this get you ready for the post season!!  Not complaining!!

[Rabble Rouser]

Mr. Kazam, like ChattCannon so eloquently stated, you don't know me or my family or where we play and I bet you don't know where most of these fellow soccer-fans reside.  We are all just passionate about the sport our children play and feel sorry for whiners who will NEVER be happy because the system will never be fair.  Our family has so many "participation medals and trophies" that our kids received when they were younger than 8, we have been donating them to local tournaments for giveaways.  Not sure if you are only talking about A-AA but thank goodness we are not in that class.  Our school plays all-comers from all divisions (Franklin, Clarksville, Brentwood - AAA: CPA, Page - A-AA; BGA, USN, FRA - Div. II-A and Father Ryan, GPS, Harpeth Hall, Baylor - Div. II-AA).  As Booger so rightfully noted, schedules like this get you ready for the post season!!  Not complaining!!

Amen.

[kazam37]

Just to be clear.....I'm really not whining so much as just stating basic facts that currently exist in the A-AA division (which should be called the private school division).  Name me a school in the last 15 years in this division that is NOT a private school. I don't think a State Chamionship game between two schools operating under the same set of rules should be considered "watered down" or a "hand out".  As for where should private schools play....?  Perhaps in two private school divisions (small and large)......or one if he pool is too small?  As BigG said, those open zoned and magnet schools don't have much effect on sports other than football, which is the cash cow driving the TSSAA. (I'm sure they will address it in the future)  So I don't really know if there is much to address about that unless they openly solisicite kids to attend their school? (I know i spelled that wrong) 

What makes you guys mad is.......the truth is sometimes painful.  So you can lash out at me or justify things  to make yourself feel better....?  I would love to stand in front of a judge and argue out our points and see how a arbitrator would see things?  

 

Kaz   

[kazam37]

Participation Medals.....?  What about a champion crowned that gets to play by a different set of rules that gives them an advantage over schools that don't have the same ones?  And you guys are going to be hard pressed to tell my there isn't any advantage here....the proof is in the pudding.  Tell me the last non-private school state champion in A-AA? 

 

Private schools are excellent institutions that uphold moral standards.  What about fairness?

 

Kaz

[BigG]

1.  What set of rules are different?

2.  There already are 2 divisions in D2.  These schools may offer tuition assistance.  Private schools in D1 cannot (well, they can, but those kids can't play varsity sports)

3.  The last public school to win was Ridgeway.

4.  What is "unfair"?  A team being better than another team isn't an issue of fairness.  It is an issue of talent.  The best example of this is Alcoa soccer.  A public school in A/AA that invested in its program.  They made it to the state finals in one of the toughest A/AA districts (beat CATHOLIC to advance to the tournament).  Why did they do it?  Because they put the time, effort and heart into building a program.  It didn't happen over night.  It took years.  But it WORKED.  

[kazam37]

Yes.....and did they win the State Championship?  Have they been back?  They aren't consistently good.....heck, our girl's team beat them this year 3-0.  Your talking about their "Hickory Huskers" season....and they still didn't win.  Great investment when you don't even beat the "whiners" team!  Come on, G.  How many titles has CAK won, Bro?  Your a smart guy....thats why you have that little grin right now....you know they getting away with it!  Alcoa is just knocking down the door......NOT.  Maybe that is why Gorman left, huh?

1.  Can your institution admit or deny students into it's enrollment?  If I am a student zoned to attend Beardon or Farragut.....can they attend your school if they choose?  Or Karns? Or West? Or Halls?  Is it possible for your school to control their enrollment #?  If a student can meet the financial obligation are they free to engage in any sport they choose?  

2.  Ridgeway....what year?  Are they a AAA school?  Isn't that a big Memphis school?

3.  Yes, and the privates are free to recieve all the talent from their area (knox) that want to go there, even if they are living in another school zone.  Does CAK even have a zone?  Yes, ALL OF KNOXVILLE.

[BigG]

1.  Yes, they can attend.  But so can Alcoa, so can Oak Ridge, so can Maryville, etc.  Why does controlled enrollment have anything to do with this?  Yes, they can play any sport as long as they can pay their full tuition.  Again, I don't know what that has to do with the situation.

2.  2001.  They moved up to AAA in 2004.  

3.  Again you are referring to open zoned schools.  This isn't a public private debate.  It is a zoning debate.  There are many public schools in TN that are open zoned.  I referred to 3 of them in the Knoxville area in question 1.  

 

I don't know what you think I "got away with".  

 

I'm curious... what team are you associated with?  If you would rather not say, I understand.  

[17SoccerFan]

Yes.....and did they win the State Championship?  Have they been back?  They aren't consistently good.....heck, our girl's team beat them this year 3-0.  Your talking about their "Hickory Huskers" season....and they still didn't win.  Great investment when you don't even beat the "whiners" team!  Come on, G.  How many titles has CAK won, Bro?  Your a smart guy....thats why you have that little grin right now....you know they getting away with it!  Alcoa is just knocking down the door......NOT.  Maybe that is why Gorman left, huh?

1.  Can your institution admit or deny students into it's enrollment?  If I am a student zoned to attend Beardon or Farragut.....can they attend your school if they choose?  Or Karns? Or West? Or Halls?  Is it possible for your school to control their enrollment #?  If a student can meet the financial obligation are they free to engage in any sport they choose?  

2.  Ridgeway....what year?  Are they a AAA school?  Isn't that a big Memphis school?

3.  Yes, and the privates are free to recieve all the talent from their area (knox) that want to go there, even if they are living in another school zone.  Does CAK even have a zone?  Yes, ALL OF KNOXVILLE.

Do not limit a private school's "zoning" to just Knox County. There are athletes from Blount, Roane, Anderson, Loudon, and even Monroe County that have chosen to attend CAK. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with private schools saying that they do not have an advantage in the pool of players that they have to choose from. Public schools, most of which are not open zoned (and yes, I know Alcoa and Maryville are), have a pool of players that are zoned into that school. If someone lives in Knoxville, they can not just decide to go play a sport in Anderson County (legally that is). 

 

Also, club soccer does affect the quality of teams. However, I would propose that if you look at the cost of club soccer now, it is very difficult for rural schools to have players that are on club teams. If families like mine who have the money to send our children to private schools, we probably have the funds to play for FC Alliance, Crush, Blount United, etc. Many others in Monroe, Roane, Cumberland, Loudon, etc. do not. 

 

My feeling is that if a private school does not want to play DII, then they should be required to play in the highest classification for that particular sport.  So in soccer, if a private wants to play in public classification then they should play in AAA. Same goes for tennis, football (6A of course), golf, basketball, etc.  Just think of all the great competition and great games that we all want to witness in AAA with the privates playing with Farragut, Bearden, Houston, Brentwood, Franklin, etc.

 

I think I saw where 12 out of 16 A/AA girls championships have been won by private schools, and 15 out 18 boys A/AA championships.

 

Just my two cents worth.

[kazam37]

We in your District......which you rather easily win every year....unless Catholic is playing....then it gets tougher!  I'm just playing around with ya.  Ridgeway 12 years ago, been a while.  My guess is you probably got somewhat "bored" with playing in A-AA because you kept winning it. 

Those open zoned schools you mentioned are around the Knoxville area.....but not actually INSIDE of Knoxville.  My guess is most of their players can access the club situation in the area, then when it comes time for school to start back up they return to their respective schools.  Plus, if they really want too....they could attend CAK or KC if their parents can make that happen?  I have relatives in Roane County and one of their kids goes to Knoxville Christian School, which I think is in that area too? 

I'm way out in the sticks.....I support the Oneida Lady Indians.  Not the least bit embarassed to be "associated" with them.

 Kazanity

[trebs]

I think we all know that having access to kids who play travel soccer is the most significant factor (not the only factor) in determining success in high school soccer. That pool of travel players is concentrated in metropolitan areas (typically a major city and surrounding counties. Metropolitan areas are 20 years ahead in the development of soccer in their communities vs. rural counties.

 

 

How many public A-AA teams have access to that pool of players? In the Nashville area, Whitehouse and Page does and they have been successful the last few years in A-AA. For a short time Station Camp did. They are now in AAA.

 

What happened to Ridgeway since they made the move to AAA?  Both the boys and girls teams were successful.  Was there a huge demographic switch?