Ricky Bowers and Ensworth have killed Tn football

[RedRobin1]

But when you refute facts, you don't back up your argument with facts.  Why do you have to be so pissed off and confrontational?  Can't you get along with your fellow man and disagree like a gentleman?  What's wrong?  You're not a very good testament to the kind of gentlemen that MBA supossedly creates.

If your idea of a "gentleman" includes a man willing to just sit back and say nothing while malicious lies are published, then we can just agree to disagree and go our separate ways. My idea of a "gentleman" includes a man unwilling to discuss "facts" about high school kids on an anonymous public message board.

[thatguy1027]

Ricky Bowers and Ensworth have killed Tennessee football as we know it. Because they basically say if you don’t spend millions of dollars on recruiting football players that you don’t have a shot at winning state. High school football because of Ensworth has been turned into a game about money instead about the kids having a good time. I bet you they don’t have one kid that starts for them that lives anywhere close to that school. And I’ll go even further than that and say  they don’t have one starter that could even pay full tuition at Ensworth. Your thoughts?

This is one of the dumbest things you could have said. You obviously know nothing about the program and by the way my nephew starts for Ensworth's offense and defense. He lives in Belle Meade and has paid full tuition since kindergarden 

[TNHSFOOTBALLFAN]

I've always heard these rumors of private schools giving "financial aid" to superior athletes for the main purpose of building dominate teams. Of course you would never hear anyone admit to such accusations    whether true or not. So since three or four of you on here seem fairly knowledgeable on how private schools handle these situations, legal and illegal, if any are illegal. I do realize this topic has gotten a little  out of hand, but I'm seriously not trying to add fuel to the fire but have a couple legit questions.  

 

  #1. How many athletes can a school enroll that receive financial aid? 

  #2. If the number of enrollments in question #1 is unlimited, could all of the student-athletes receive         100% financial support if the school chose to do that?

  #3. Would it be fair to say that if 4 or more starters/key players of any team had someone other than their legal guardian pay for their tuition, that there could be a unfair advantage and/or some possible illegal action taking place?  

  #4. Does any of your top schools such as Ensworth, MUS,MBA,BA have 100% of their football players that parents pay 100% of their tuition? 

  #5. How many starters/key players, on average, receive aid on your top teams such as Ensworth, MBA, BA, MUS and whoever else is dominate in there class? 

 

  Thank you for any help you may have in helping me to understand how this works in private schools. I would love to think I could give my future kids a chance at such a fine education and still be able to enjoy playing sports one of these days

[owlbooster]

I've always heard these rumors of private schools giving "financial aid" to superior athletes for the main purpose of building dominate teams. Of course you would never hear anyone admit to such accusations    whether true or not. So since three or four of you on here seem fairly knowledgeable on how private schools handle these situations, legal and illegal, if any are illegal. I do realize this topic has gotten a little  out of hand, but I'm seriously not trying to add fuel to the fire but have a couple legit questions.  

 

  #1. How many athletes can a school enroll that receive financial aid? 

  #2. If the number of enrollments in question #1 is unlimited, could all of the student-athletes receive         100% financial support if the school chose to do that?

  #3. Would it be fair to say that if 4 or more starters/key players of any team had someone other than their legal guardian pay for their tuition, that there could be a unfair advantage and/or some possible illegal action taking place?  

  #4. Does any of your top schools such as Ensworth, MUS,MBA,BA have 100% of their football players that parents pay 100% of their tuition? 

  #5. How many starters/key players, on average, receive aid on your top teams such as Ensworth, MBA, BA, MUS and whoever else is dominate in there class? 

 

  Thank you for any help you may have in helping me to understand how this works in private schools. I would love to think I could give my future kids a chance at such a fine education and still be able to enjoy playing sports one of these days

I have been following D!! on CoachT for about 5 years.  Most if not all of your questions have been asked and answered more than once before.  Hopefully one of the "answer men" will resurface and give the answers again.  I do know that financial aid is based on need.  Financial papers documenting need have to be filed with some national agency that determines how much aid can be given.  I'm sure it's rare that any kid qualifies for 100% financial support and I think it may not even be allowed or else is very limited.  About 25% of MUS students receive financial aid, but I don't know what the % is for student-athletes, football starters or otherwise.   

[WesVLT]

I have been following D!! on CoachT for about 5 years. Most if not all of your questions have been asked and answered more than once before. Hopefully one of the "answer men" will resurface and give the answers again. I do know that financial aid is based on need. Financial papers documenting need have to be filed with some national agency that determines how much aid can be given. I'm sure it's rare that any kid qualifies for 100% financial support and I think it may not even be allowed or else is very limited. About 25% of MUS students receive financial aid, but I don't know what the % is for student-athletes, football starters or otherwise.

I can tell you that at Brentwood Academy everybody pays something -- and I'm not talking a couple hundred bucks. Even the families on financial aid make serious sacrifices to send their kids to BA. I would imagine that's the case at the other DII schools, too.

[big red big blue]

How many times have we covered this, I wonder?

 

--a financial aid award is based on your ability to pay, nothing more or less.  Great players (future pro and college players) like Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brandon Wright, Connor McDermott, Fitz Lassing, et al were all paying full tuition at their respective schools because their families' financial condition was such that they did not qualify for financial aid.

 

--there is no limit (as of '96, when D2 was formed) on the # of players receiving financial aid who may dress out for any varsity sport.

 

--The Tennessean article on Ensworth gave #'s (I think) of something like 45% of varsity athletes were receiving financial aid at MBA and Ensworth; 25% at BA.  I imagine that spans starters and back-ups.

 

--there is no such thing as 100% financial aid.  Everyone pays something after a financial aid award is determined by a 3rd party service.  This third party considers only financial information (W-2's, tax returns, etc) and does not in any way factor in other abilities (music, arts, forensics, leadership, academics, athletics, etc.).

 

--several years ago, there was a starter at a D2 school whose family (very publicly) could not pay tuition even after the financial aid award, due to a lost job; he had to transfer to his zoned public school.  That to me should have ended this debate once and for all, but obviously it will never die.

[yoadrian]

 

 

--The Tennessean article on Ensworth gave #'s (I think) of something like 45% of varsity athletes were receiving financial aid at MBA and Ensworth; 25% at BA.  I imagine that spans starters and back-ups.

 

What the article said:

 

Ensworth gave 45 football and boys and girls basketball players need-based financial aid last year, according to the TSSAA, compared with 74 for Brentwood Academy and 31 at MBA.

[cowboypete]

 

How many times have we covered this, I wonder?

 

--a financial aid award is based on your ability to pay, nothing more or less.  Great players (future pro and college players) like Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brandon Wright, Connor McDermott, Fitz Lassing, et al were all paying full tuition at their respective schools because their families' financial condition was such that they did not qualify for financial aid.

 

--there is no limit (as of '96, when D2 was formed) on the # of players receiving financial aid who may dress out for any varsity sport.

 

--The Tennessean article on Ensworth gave #'s (I think) of something like 45% of varsity athletes were receiving financial aid at MBA and Ensworth; 25% at BA.  I imagine that spans starters and back-ups.

 

--there is no such thing as 100% financial aid.  Everyone pays something after a financial aid award is determined by a 3rd party service.  This third party considers only financial information (W-2's, tax returns, etc) and does not in any way factor in other abilities (music, arts, forensics, leadership, academics, athletics, etc.).

 

--several years ago, there was a starter at a D2 school whose family (very publicly) could not pay tuition even after the financial aid award, due to a lost job; he had to transfer to his zoned public school.  That to me should have ended this debate once and for all, but obviously it will never die.

I'm not so sure about that. How much do you think those MBA football players were paying in tuition a few years ago? Between the checks from the coaches I'm willing to beat not so much. And to respond to our Brentwood Academy friend WesVLT hasn’t Brentwood academy been put on probation for paying players before like their friends in crime McCallie when they went on probation as well. I’m just looking at history and there’s no way you can tell me that all those school including Ensworth aren’t doing some things under the table to get better football players.

Edited September 27, 2013 by cowboypete

[TNHSFOOTBALLFAN]

Thanks for some insight on this guys. I can see where some would think their intelligence is being put in question by wanting them to believe that all these private schools miraculously enroll a team full of "smart, rich, talented, athletes year after year without putting out an effort to draw them in. Most colleges have a hard time doing that and they throw every trick in the book at it. I believe everyone realizes that these schools don't sit in staff meetings discussing how to recruit athletes and that 99% of the school personnel knows nothing that goes on in these matters. So I think all anyone is asking is that folks don't insult their intelligence by coming in here insinuating that these programs are squeaky clean and this never happens. AgainThank you for the input.

[matt86]

I'm not so sure about that. How much do you think those MBA football players were paying in tuition a few years ago? Between the checks from the coaches I'm willing to beat not so much. And to respond to our Brentwood Academy friend WesVLT hasn’t Brentwood academy been put on probation for paying players before like their friends in crime McCallie when they went on probation as well. I’m just looking at history and there’s no way you can tell me that all those school including Ensworth aren’t doing some things under the table to get better football players.

Nice try...BA was put on probation for sending a letter about spring practice to 8th graders already enrolled at the school. As a BA alumni, former player and former BA faculty member and coach...I can tell you with 100% certainty that no Brentwood Academy athlete has ever been paid to attend school or compete in any sport.

Cowboypete, if you have eviedence to the contrary please go turn this over to the TSSAA and then the next phone call should be to BA - ask to speak to Hunt Atkins, Cody White, or Curt Masters - they would be eager to hear this so they could rectify the situation and begin working transparently with the TSSAA to get to the bottom of it...BA's phone number 615-373-0611. 

[meritage]

Nice try...BA was put on probation for sending a letter about spring practice to 8th graders already enrolled at the school. As a BA alumni, former player and former BA faculty member and coach...I can tell you with 100% certainty that no Brentwood Academy athlete has ever been paid to attend school or compete in any sport.

Cowboypete, if you have eviedence to the contrary please go turn this over to the TSSAA and then the next phone call should be to BA - ask to speak to Hunt Atkins, Cody White, or Curt Masters - they would be eager to hear this so they could rectify the situation and begin working transparently with the TSSAA to get to the bottom of it...BA's phone number 615-373-0611. 

Good response Matt.  It is amazing to me that this type of discussion just goes on and on and on not only on these boards but all over the place. "Privates give out full tuition!"  "They recruit all of the time!" "Lots of kids are living with legal guardians instead of parents!"  "Such and such told me or i heard such and such!" "They are paying under the table!" "Hardly any of their kids that play live close to school!"  "They cheat!"  It's not worth even trying to respond with facts anymore because they either don't listen, can't read (i guess) or simply want to believe what they want to believe.  When a school and program establish themselves - football, academics, basketball,  arts, another sport, or combination of all - the families find them esp when they want their kids in private schools. I said earlier in a thread, 8 kids from BA went on to play college football this fall. A parent sees that and sees their kid has talent and approaches a school on their own And, as i've said for the umpteenth time now, if a family can find a way to have kids go to a private in TN why would they not do that? This state ranks near the bottom in public school education. And colleges know that. With 5 kids, i've talked to many many admissions offices across the country as to how they break down our state in regards to academics. Anyway, good response. Curt, Cody or Ray Mullican would love to hear the "facts" from these gents as to how BA is cheating. Just had breakfast the other day with Ray. I'll check in with all 3 to see if they got a call         

[pepvol]

Ya know , a lot of you guys are awfully testy  , I was one of those who was told for years and years on here that MBA always follows the rules ...   I believed that to be true , when I found out otherwise ... Well this article is just a year and a half ago , and all of you guys are acting like you can't believe this subject is ever brought up .... hey , I like the DII schools and I have no problem if we did play you guys , none at all , but I'm just pointing out that you all shouldn't act so surprised when you do hear about this . 

 

 http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/tssaa-hammers-mba-financial-aid-violations

Edited September 27, 2013 by pepvol