Revolution of offenses today

[TrenchWarrior]

People have the misconceptions that spread teams don't use traditional concepts. Not true at all. It's all about numbers. If you can make the defense cover the entire field then running the veer, triple option, iso, and trap become much easier. Add in the jet motion and some screens and you have a winner.

The thing with spread formations is that spreading the defense out makes it easier to run inside, but the defense spreads with you.  That means there's more of them waiting to tackle you out in the flanks, unless they're just poorly coached or you're so bad at passing they know they don't need to.

 

There's a lot to be said for packing defenses in and pinning them in while you run outside or just lobbing the ball over their heads deep.  I say this from experience as a coach.  A couple of years ago, I was OC at a small school where everybody in the district ran spread stuff except for one Wing-T.  Care to guess what our best passing formation was?

 

Wishbone!

 

Defenses saw that and they brought everybody in and packed the box.  We'd run it a few times with option or double iso and then lob it right over their heads off play action to wide open receivers, especially our TE.  We were also only 1 of 2 teams in the district who even used a TE and teams forgot to cover him half the time.

[TrenchWarrior]

What type of wing-t you talking?  Rhea County? Because nobody runs that at the next level.  Obviously Georgia Tech, Army, Navy, and Air Force all run triple option concepts out of flex bone/double wing double wide looks.  

A bunch of small schools run Wing-T stuff successfully at the next level.  It's just not what you see in the SEC or Big 12.  That offense has evolved quite a bit since the 90s.  There's a new version of the Wing-T now.  That jet sweep play that every college runs to their fast WRs?  That was a Wing-T idea.

 

Actually there's a ton of Wing-T influence in what Auburn, Ohio State, Mississippi State, and Stanford do if you look at the blocking and their use of misdirection and how the offense is actually structured.  They don't use the old formations, but the soul of it's still there.  It's like the old Wing-T was a '65 Mustang with a 4 speed and a 289 and now they're cruising around in a 2014 model with a 5.0 and a 6 speed automatic that an old timer wouldn't even recognize.

[TrenchWarrior]

Fulton runs the multiple offense set... Our main formation is the pro I formation with a TE we have a wing t formation we go to a split back formation a jumbo goalline formation a wildcat formation and a spread formation... All offenses can be effective with the right personnel and play calling... Within all of those formations they have variations that can make them more effective passing or running the ball... I like the way the game has evolved personally...

Multiple formations work fine as long as the team's not doing radically different stuff.  The teams who do this well recycle a lot of terminology and blocking.

 

After a while, as a coach you realize that the offenses out there are about more than formations and the plays.  They playcalling is actually the easiest part of coaching if you know what makes your system really work.  What really makes an offense work is how it's blocked and how it's all packaged together so you have answers to how teams are going to defend you.

 

Look at the old Wing-T.  First off, it's a really simple system for blocking--EVERYTHING is block down and kick out up front, so kids get TONS of work on that in practice every day (or they used to, before they were limited to 90 min. of "contact" in a week).  With that blocking, the Wing-T teams want to run the old Buck Sweep.  They have the trap, the waggle, and the counter play(s) in there to hurt you when your guys are doing stuff that takes Buck Sweep away so they can't stop it all without just overloading you in certain spots.  Then they have the Belly Iso, Belly Option, and Belly Counter in there to hit the weakside of the formation so you can't just overload those spots with people.  They have answers.  So when they burn you with those answers a few times and you back off... then they can run the Buck Sweep play they wanted to run all along. That's what an offense is all about.

 

The good spread teams have answers, too.  The good I formation teams have their answers.  Etc.  The key at the HS level is to teach it in a way that the kids can remember and get really good at doing against whatever they see on Friday night.

 

Fulton is so good because they don't try to put a bunch of different offenses together--their stuff has a ton of carry over from one play to the next.  They just tell the kids to stand in a different spot before the snap or get the ball to a different guy when they do the things they normally do, anyway.  It looks like they're doing a lot of different things, when really it's the same old stuff they know how to do in their sleep, just with a little tweak to it.  That's smart coaching.

[TrenchWarrior]

Giants Packers and Saints all we're either worst rushing or defensive teams in the league when they won the superbowl. Who was the best passing offense in the final 4 of FBS football last year?

The best passing offenses in all of FBS were Washington St., Western Kentucky, East Carolina, and Baylor last year.  They had a combined 30-21 record with Washington State going 3-9.  Of the final 4, Oregon was the highest rated one at #10, followed by FSU at #14, Alabama at #29, and Ohio State was #52 overall out of 128 teams.

 

Rushing wise, Georgia Southern, Georgia Tech, Navy, and Wisconsin were the top 4 and had a combined record of 39-14 (the top 3 were all triple option teams) and all had winning seasons.  Of the final 4, Ohio State came in at #9, followed by Oregon at #22, Alabama at #37, and Florida State was way down at #98.

 

In terms of defense (we'll go by points per game, since that's all that really matters), the top 4 teams in the nation were Ole Miss, Stanford, Clemson, and Temple, with records of a combined 33-18.  Temple had the worst record, at 6-6.  Of the final 4, Alabama was #6, Ohio State was #26, Oregon was #30, and FSU was #49.

[FHSalumn12]

Multiple formations work fine as long as the team's not doing radically different stuff. The teams who do this well recycle a lot of terminology and blocking.

 

After a while, as a coach you realize that the offenses out there are about more than formations and the plays. They playcalling is actually the easiest part of coaching if you know what makes your system really work. What really makes an offense work is how it's blocked and how it's all packaged together so you have answers to how teams are going to defend you.

 

Look at the old Wing-T. First off, it's a really simple system for blocking--EVERYTHING is block down and kick out up front, so kids get TONS of work on that in practice every day (or they used to, before they were limited to 90 min. of "contact" in a week). With that blocking, the Wing-T teams want to run the old Buck Sweep. They have the trap, the waggle, and the counter play(s) in there to hurt you when your guys are doing stuff that takes Buck Sweep away so they can't stop it all without just overloading you in certain spots. Then they have the Belly Iso, Belly Option, and Belly Counter in there to hit the weakside of the formation so you can't just overload those spots with people. They have answers. So when they burn you with those answers a few times and you back off... then they can run the Buck Sweep play they wanted to run all along. That's what an offense is all about.

 

The good spread teams have answers, too. The good I formation teams have their answers. Etc. The key at the HS level is to teach it in a way that the kids can remember and get really good at doing against whatever they see on Friday night.

 

Fulton is so good because they don't try to put a bunch of different offenses together--their stuff has a ton of carry over from one play to the next. They just tell the kids to stand in a different spot before the snap or get the ball to a different guy when they do the things they normally do, anyway. It looks like they're doing a lot of different things, when really it's the same old stuff they know how to do in their sleep, just with a little tweak to it. That's smart coaching.

Exactly when I played we had a lot of formations but the play calls rarely changed names... A 44 blast is the same no matter the formation...

[TrenchWarrior]

Also... apologies for hijacking this thread.  I'm a coach between football jobs right now after some weird politics at my last stop, so all that itching to talk ball's come out.  lol.   Thank you all for humoring me.

[workinprogress]

The thing with spread formations is that spreading the defense out makes it easier to run inside, but the defense spreads with you. That means there's more of them waiting to tackle you out in the flanks, unless they're just poorly coached or you're so bad at passing they know they don't need to.

 

There's a lot to be said for packing defenses in and pinning them in while you run outside or just lobbing the ball over their heads deep. I say this from experience as a coach. A couple of years ago, I was OC at a small school where everybody in the district ran spread stuff except for one Wing-T. Care to guess what our best passing formation was?

 

Wishbone!

 

Defenses saw that and they brought everybody in and packed the box. We'd run it a few times with option or double iso and then lob it right over their heads off play action to wide open receivers, especially our TE. We were also only 1 of 2 teams in the district who even used a TE and teams forgot to cover him half the time.

Good points. There are still a majority of teams running 3-4, 4-3, 4-4, and 5-3 defenses. Some teams have gone to the 3-3 stack or 4-2-5 but not many. Teams try to keep numbers in the box and make you beat them passing. Screens become an extension of the running game here because you have numbers on the outside. If a defense does shift to cover your receivers then that is when the zone reads, veer, I so, trap etc work in the offenses advantage. Of course you have to have a decent qb and receivers that can catch a five yard or less pass. Go over the top to keep the defense honest.

[REBELRON]

Maryville runs the spread and I love it. I have seen Maryville score points in bunches. I remember the 70s when Maryville was also good. They ran the wishbone. Maryville won big in the 70s with Don Story's defense. Maryville didn't win a lot of games 56-21 back then. Games were more like 21-7 then.

 

I truly believe Maryville is winning big right now because their offense is so good. Quarles makes other teams defenses defend every inch of the field. Quarles offenses are always balanced. Sure there are some years where Maryville runs the ball more. There are years Maryville throws the ball more. I truly believe in today's football you have to be able to throw the ball and run it also. Maryville doesn't have the personnel to just play power football every year. I have seen too many years Maryville has those small linemen.

[strongx]

... All offenses can be effective with the right personnel and play calling....

Amen to that. Agree 100%

[STARSNBARS]

Eckseecushun....eckseecushun....eckseecushun....

 

Az fer az Mairvul...Thay run sum zoan reed....Butt GQ steal addhears two hiz veer princypulls ....Lots ov 2/split baicks....Evun if tha QB iz inn tha shotgun......

Edited April 26, 2015 by STARSNBARS

[qb#7]

Eckseecushun....eckseecushun....eckseecushun....

 

Az fer az Mairvul...Thay run sum zoan reed....Butt GQ steal addhears two hiz veer princypulls ....Lots ov 2/split baicks....Evun if tha QB iz inn tha shotgun......

Don't forget them smoke and mirrors!

[STARSNBARS]

......yes qb#7 and tha 'adjustments of that cat'.............