Sectionals added To State tournament

[mat73557]

3 hours ago, sx1234 said:

Comical attempt to try and twist words to build rhetoric there. However, sadly ,the universe in under no obligation to make sense to you.  Reality exists whether you understand it or not.

A clear measure of a man's debating skill is how quickly he resorts to insults and ad hominin attacks.  

(Just in case ... ad hominin - an argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I didn't try to twist any words at all.  You're the one who said that 0-2 kids are probably poor and their parents cant afford to travel to the state tournament.  Then the extra travel costs forces them to quit the team.  

Even though cbg and I don't agree, he at least has an understandable position (wanting a unified state tournament). 

 I stand by my original comment.

"Reducing the number of kids who go to state is not growing wrestling, wrestling interest, or wrestling popularity."

 

[sx1234]

17 hours ago, mat73557 said:

A clear measure of a man's debating skill is how quickly he resorts to insults and ad hominin attacks.  

(Just in case ... ad hominin - an argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I didn't try to twist any words at all.  You're the one who said that 0-2 kids are probably poor and their parents cant afford to travel to the state tournament.  Then the extra travel costs forces them to quit the team.  

Even though cbg and I don't agree, he at least has an understandable position (wanting a unified state tournament). 

 I stand by my original comment.

"Reducing the number of kids who go to state is not growing wrestling, wrestling interest, or wrestling popularity."

 

Show me where I said an 0-2 kid is probably poor?

You're first comment about my example was that it does not make sense to you.  Then you attempted to break it down, and just exemplified that you did not see how for the vast majority of programs in the state that negative aspects of time and cost out weigh the positive of a kid being called a "state qualifier".  Is that true for all states?  Most likely not, but it is for how the TSSAA has ran the individual state tournament since the split of A/AA and AAA (now A and AA).

 

Also, for the scenario I described earlier, how is him not being a state qualifier hurting the growth of the sport?  'Sectional Qualifier' or 'Sub-state' qualifier is an achievement in most states, and it will become one in Tennessee with this new addition.  In my opinion, and you probably disagree, it's a better goal stepping stone for those kids.  "Great job, you qualified for sectionals in your very first year, lets work hard this off-season and set a goal to qualify for state next year." 

[RMC]

Ok....commenting here because we (GA) moved to sectionals several years ago and from what I've seen there has been no drop in participation.  The plus, you can wrestle a 16 man bracket in a day.  The minus, you still probably have to get a hotel for wherever your sectional is located.  And if you want your kid to participate in a state tournament....come to Georgia.....since I think we have 7 of them. (kidding....don't blast me for that)  

[sx1234]

14 minutes ago, RMC said:

Ok....commenting here because we (GA) moved to sectionals several years ago and from what I've seen there has been no drop in participation.  The plus, you can wrestle a 16 man bracket in a day.  The minus, you still probably have to get a hotel for wherever your sectional is located.  And if you want your kid to participate in a state tournament....come to Georgia.....since I think we have 7 of them. (kidding....don't blast me for that)  

The way ours is set up, the sectional will be an 8 man bracket.  I could be wrong for regions 7 and 8, but I believe even the worst case scenario of drive time would still be manageable for a morning trip; granted the host school could most likely push the start time of the tournament closer to late-morning/mid-day given it'll be such a small tournament.

 

[sx1234]

I do have a question about the individual sectional that is 50% my genuine curiosity and admittedly 50% me stirring the pot.  Did TSSAA make a rule on forfeiting sectional finals matches?  Will this become the standard if its a repeat of the region finals match that happened the previous week? Or do top ranked kids have to have a 'round 2' of fighting for their seeds at the state tournament ?

[CoachKramer]

I personally like it.  At state last year every match had a pretty tough kid in it and it made watching more enjoyable to me.  

I think this way it means more to be a state qualifier.  i see a lot of comments about teams not getting any state qualifiers,  my advice is work harder and up your game - like start and get involved in a youth club, help out with the middle school team, bring in clinicians to work with your kids, make it exciting when you have home matches, for example we run out to music and wrestle under a spotlight, kids go to the mat to their own walk out song and we throw t-shirts to the crowd with each pin and make sure you have a special seating area for club and middle school kids so they can get close to the action. When i came to WCHS the program was really bad and then they moved us to region 5 and i was told not to expect to get anyone to state any time soon and my comment back was we just need to up our game and we did and became pretty competitive.

i truly believe this will make wrestling better in Tennessee and not worse 

[sx1234]

1 hour ago, CoachKramer said:

I personally like it.  At state last year every match had a pretty tough kid in it and it made watching more enjoyable to me.  

I think this way it means more to be a state qualifier.  i see a lot of comments about teams not getting any state qualifiers,  my advice is work harder and up your game - like start and get involved in a youth club, help out with the middle school team, bring in clinicians to work with your kids, make it exciting when you have home matches, for example we run out to music and wrestle under a spotlight, kids go to the mat to their own walk out song and we throw t-shirts to the crowd with each pin and make sure you have a special seating area for club and middle school kids so they can get close to the action. When i came to WCHS the program was really bad and then they moved us to region 5 and i was told not to expect to get anyone to state any time soon and my comment back was we just need to up our game and we did and became pretty competitive.

i truly believe this will make wrestling better in Tennessee and not worse 

Can you share your schedule?  I may have to make a road trip to be a part of this crowd. 

[CoachKramer]

42 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

Can you share your schedule?  I may have to make a road trip to be a part of this crowd. 

will do as soon as i finish it    should be a few days

[RMC]

2 hours ago, sx1234 said:

The way ours is set up, the sectional will be an 8 man bracket.  I could be wrong for regions 7 and 8, but I believe even the worst case scenario of drive time would still be manageable for a morning trip; granted the host school could most likely push the start time of the tournament closer to late-morning/mid-day given it'll be such a small tournament.

 

I could be wrong because I've been out of working the GA state tournament for a while, but I'm pretty sure for at least the larger classifications here the sectional brackets here are 16 man.  And I mentioned the hotel because for a team in Gwinnett like Collins Hill or Mountain View their sectional is often in Camden county or down in Valdosta.  The driving force here for sectionals was the cost of the venue for state and the smaller brackets mean less days at the venue.    

[mat73557]

5 hours ago, sx1234 said:

Show me where I said an 0-2 kid is probably poor?

You're first comment about my example was that it does not make sense to you.  Then you attempted to break it down, and just exemplified that you did not see how for the vast majority of programs in the state that negative aspects of time and cost out weigh the positive of a kid being called a "state qualifier".  Is that true for all states?  Most likely not, but it is for how the TSSAA has ran the individual state tournament since the split of A/AA and AAA (now A and AA).

 

Also, for the scenario I described earlier, how is him not being a state qualifier hurting the growth of the sport?  'Sectional Qualifier' or 'Sub-state' qualifier is an achievement in most states, and it will become one in Tennessee with this new addition.  In my opinion, and you probably disagree, it's a better goal stepping stone for those kids.  "Great job, you qualified for sectionals in your very first year, lets work hard this off-season and set a goal to qualify for state next year." 

All anyone has to do is read what you wrote.  Like I said, what you said about the kid who tells his coach he is quitting because his parents can't afford wrestling didn't make sense to me to use as an argument for a smaller state tournament.  (still doesn't)  And then you started off with the insults.

I have seen many high school kids quit wrestling because "I suck".  That's not what we should want to see.

Youth sports is becoming less attractive and less beneficial for the kids.  Sports aren't really fun anymore.  More and more kids are encouraged to specialize early and the pressure to win often is debilitating for them.  70% of kids quit sports already, so basically we are driving the kids away from sports who need sports the most.

There should be room in high school for a kid who starts wrestling as a freshman to see some measure of meaningful success IMO.  We might disagree on whether or not the title of "state qualifier" is meaningful or not, but if a kid does not see a path to success, why even bother participating in the first place?

I think to grow wrestling, you have to encourage and cater to the kids in the middle and those at the bottom the most.  For those talking about how they do it in GA, they have almost 100 state champs a year in GA.  That is 100 kids who get to hang a wrestling banner in their school or get their name on the wall.  THAT is good for wrestling, and that encourages kids to sign up and also encourages coaches to invest more time in youth programs and building something meaningful.

 

 

[FiremansHarry]

Bring the Private and Public Schools back together with District, Region and State.

[cbg]

53 minutes ago, FiremansHarry said:

Bring the Private and Public Schools back together with District, Region and State.

That’s a great idea but that would mean a much more difficult path to success and people today are searching for the easy way to gold medals.  Let’s not forget that we have a generation of individuals that want everyone to be successful (that will never happen) and happy.