referee decisions determine too many matches

[texas23]

Coach Moorman-I respect and admire your candor on this issue. I think the bleacher-bound zebras could learn alot from your integrity and character.

 

I saw my share of mistakes at the tournament. They will happen at every tournament. "Going to the tape" has no place in our sport. I realize the refs are not equal-there were clearly a few officials who did their job, as head or assistant, better than others. That's the nature of the beast. By the same token, I saw some strong officiating as well.

 

Congratulations to all of the coaches and wrestlers for a great tournament.

Millshalf,

 

I agree with your point that there is no place for 'going to the tape" in our sport. However, in this case the only reason to go to the tape would be to re-count what the ref had already called. There we be no review of the wrestling action, just watch the ref for his signals. That would be appropriate, in my opinion.

[wiscwrest]

Soddy wrestlers were sensational and offensive minded in every match and Farragut wrestlers were similar in offensive manuevers.With the exception of Cordell and Gibson I saw no offense from the other Bradley State Champs. Gentlemen, I know the sport well and three of them would have been forced to wrestle if a different set of refs were on their mats. The ref from the 171lb. match should be moved over to Division 2 and let his relatives be aggravated with his poor officiating. I have seen too much from him over the years and a good move would be just what has been suggested move him to Division 2.In closing, hats off to the Tennessee wrestling community for putting on another great State Final.

[reftn]

At the state tournament, you have a mat official and an assistant. If they cant keep up with the number of stalling warnings/penalties, there is something wrong there. You dont need another official at the table, or shouldnt. Tape review will only muddy things in the long run. Imagine taking three or four minutes to review such a thing, over half the length of a match that is dependent upon uniterrupted action.

The best thing is a coach that has a scorer who knows what they are talking about, not to persaude an opinion, but to help with clarity. I am far more likely to listen to a good scorer from the corner than the coach. Again, with an official and an assistant, I dont understand the confusion.

 

Michael, during the context of a match, there are numerous things to look for. Three points of inbounds mat contact is a new one on me, but if it works for this particular official to make the correct call, great!

 

Understand, the ideal is continual action. If the bottom man is grabbing a hand, what is he doing with it? Stopping the top man? Fine, that is allowed. Is he hanging on to it to keep the top man from doing anything else? Not so fine. He might be blocking a power half or a reverse crossface with legs in. Good, block it and improve your position, dont sit on it.

 

Top man putting legs in, great. Work them and score. Cant score? Go to something else. I have no ten second rule, more likely will stalement initially before calling him for stalling. If legs are in and the bottom man is active, this forces the top man to defend from the top position, particularly if he cant keep the bottom man on the mat (continually executing a stand up for instance). A good legman can control the bottom with his legs, but once controlled must do something with him to score.

 

Neutral? Who is working and who is blocking? Is blocking allowed? Sure, but you better be moving to something offensive. I am allowed to stop your momentum by blocking you, maybe my forearm on your head, in your chest, hands to your shoulders...etc......but if I am doing that ongoing, who is stalling? This is one way the aggressor demonstrates to me HE is NOT stalling, and points out to me who is.

 

The idea that two officials on a mat cant keep the number of stalling calls correct troubles me.

 

reftn

[mtnman]

Having an adult keep the book my help. TSSAA dicatates that the book keeper at HS basketball games be an adult. Why not wrestling? Or at least the finals. All you would need is on four people, two for each mat? Seems like an easy solution. (at least to the recording aspect of the match)

Edited February 23, 2004 by mtnman

[texas23]

 

The idea that two officials on a mat cant keep the number of stalling calls correct troubles me.

 

reftn

The way I understood the circumstance is that at the end of the match, it was then noted on the score sheet that three cautions had been called. The scorers recorded the signals from the ref. I also understood that the ref had lost count and could not verify to the scorer that three was correct.

 

In this particular case, a review could have been useful. Honest mistake by a ref, good score keeping by the table, unfortunate outcome for the losing wrestler.

[sundancer]

A tape was reviewed by officials at the State Duals! If you look at the tape of the Davis match - you will clearly see the 3 cautions, prior to the pin.

 

I don't think anyone wants to take a medal away, but to just make sure the refs admit to their error.

Edited February 23, 2004 by sundancer

[reftn]

That is the reason you have a scorer, to keep up with what the official calls. If the scorer noted three on the bout sheet, he overruled himself even with the advise of an assistant?

 

In defense of the scoring by tables, it has been my experience that the Soddy, Brentwood, and Clarksville girls are top notch. That is not an all inclusive list, only my experience. Once at the state I replaced a table that couldnt concentrate. Thats pretty drastic, but J Morgan did it without hesistation. An official has to have confidence in the table, especially at that level.

 

reftn

[texas23]

That is the reason you have a scorer, to keep up with what the official calls. If the scorer noted three on the bout sheet, he overruled himself even with the advise of an assistant?

 

 

reftn

refn,

 

To answer simply, yes. That is my understanding.

[nywrestler]

In the case of the Davis match at State,when the ref was notified by the score table after the match that the three cautions were given , why didn't the mighty respected ref. do what what was right and name the corret champion. Any ref can make an honest mistake, but the good ones will fix what is wrong. It was clear to all who watched the match and is blatantly clear on video tape. Nothing should be taken from Sanders he is a great wrestler, but Bond Davis should be a State Champion also.

[reftn]

Where was the coach during all this?

 

reftn

[texas23]

Where was the coach during all this?

 

reftn

I can't answer where was the coach during all this, but please do not start pointing the finger at the coach as the total answer. The ref clearly had the opportunity to follow the score table's record and chose not to.

 

I do believe that a coach was the one to bring up the matter at the end of the action, but I am not sure of that account of the situation.

[cbg]

This is the situation as I understand it. The head official, assistant official, official scorer, or anyone else at the table knew that 3 false start cautions were issued during the match. After the match the head official figured out that a mistake had been made when he went to sign the bout sheet. At that time both wrestlers had left the mat and you cannot reverse the decision after the wrestlers leave the mat. The Franklin coach and wrestler should have been all over this and never left the mat. If I were the Franklin coach I would have been standing at the table after the 3rd caution until the official stoped the match and came to the table. All the Franklin coach had to do is ask the official if 3 cautions had been issued.