Unfortunate Ending at Clinton Middle

[GovMan]

This is not meant to trash anyone ... simply to recap a sad and unfortunate mistake in Monday night's game between Clinton and Carpenters. Everyone in the gym, both team's fans ... game administrator ... both coaches ... all the players .... everyone there knows what happened.

 

At around the 2:00 minute remaining mark in the final period, Clinton (who played a great game) hit a three pointer to go ahead 38 - 35. Carpenters came back down the floor and hit an outside two to pull within one at 38-37. One of Carpenter's guards immediately intercepted the inbounds pass and scored to (seemingly) give Carpenters a lead at 39-38. The scoreboard keeper even put the score up, but seconds later changed it back to show Clinton still leading 38-37. Clinton's official score keeper evidently did not see the steal and basket and therefore didn't reflect the basket in the official book.

 

Carpenter's managed to score again (which should have put them up by three, but the scoreboard and scorekeeper still said one). Clinton then got a lay-up and ended up winning by one ... although Carpenters actually outscored them.

 

Obviously, as fans and supporters, we Carpenters people were distraught, but what we found out was ... nothing we could do. Our girls season and many of them, their middle school basketball careers ended because of a score keepers mistake.

 

I suppose, at the time the score was misadjusted, our coach should have stopped the game and tried to get both coaches, the bookeeper, and the scoreboard operator together to correct the situation instead of letting the game play out, but he was so busy coaching he didn't do it. We trusted in the official table to do the right thing, but it never happened.

 

Good luck to Clinton as they move on ... they have a good team and they played a great game ... especially the second half. But I wonder what type of lesson their coach, their principal, and anyone else who had any power to rectify this situation taught the young ladies by letting the results of this game stand tonight.

 

The game should have been stopped, the score corrected , and then played on out. Clinton may well have still won ... but they would have needed two more points to do it. And the right thing would have been done and the right lesson taught.

[brocksterdanza]

Oh man that is awful....... isnt there a complaint process? Surely with that being a sub state game, someoen has it on video that they can look at right? I just feel awful for that girls, i know if it would have happend to mine i would have been rather upset at the host for not getting that basket.

[goosevol]

Don't hold me to this, but I think scoring errors and things of that nature must be fixed at the next dead ball. It's kind of like the NFL where you have to challenge before the ball is snapped for the next play.

Last night, I watched a boy hit a shot and get called for a charge on the play. The scorekeeper and clock keeper put the points on the board and no one ever realized that the hoop should not have counted. Luckily, that game ended in a seven-point margin.

[GovMan]

Don't hold me to this, but I think scoring errors and things of that nature must be fixed at the next dead ball. It's kind of like the NFL where you have to challenge before the ball is snapped for the next play.

Last night, I watched a boy hit a shot and get called for a charge on the play. The scorekeeper and clock keeper put the points on the board and no one ever realized that the hoop should not have counted. Luckily, that game ended in a seven-point margin.

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Goose,

 

I think you're right. I think if we could have got a stop in play (which I guess, was our responsibility) we could have conferred with both coaches, the refs, the scoreboard operator, & the book keeper and surely ... rationally ... the correct score could have been arrived at before resuming play.

 

It's a tough pill to swallow ... especially for our young ladies. The team that Clinton moves on to play--Seymour--we defeated twice pretty handily during the season. I'm certain Clinton will probably do the same and I wish them luck.

[TheAnswer9]

After conferring with a couple of officiating buddies tonight, we came to the conclusion that it was A CORRECTABLE ERROR by the officials until after they left the court at the end of the contest. They could have even changed it at 0:00---as long as they hadn't left the court! So..hope that doesn't make it any more bitter!! I won't even go there because I'll be up on my soap box preaching to the choir!!

[PowerSet]

Even if there is an "official scorer", I still have my own scorer at the table who knows the game well enough to not let a situation like that happen. If the official scorer misses something, my scorer can get the game stopped, call the referees and coaches over, and get it straight. As as coach, I am usually so caught up in the game, I dont catch the little things which can ultimately turn into big things (as shown by this event.) Sorry for your season ending on such a bad note. That's a cheap way to win a game regardless of who it happens to.

Edited February 16, 2005 by PowerSet

[Anthony17]

It just doesn't make sense. With an official scorer, timer, and team scorer, how could all three have made the same mistake? In addition, there is usually an assistant coach that keeps his eye on these kinds of things. Besides, the fans always get on the timer in situations like that and start howling for them to change the display.

 

Its possible there was a mistake by the timer earlier in the period, and they finally got around to fixing the score on the display. Did anyone confront the scorer right after the game? Too many things don't make sense here. Sorry, I realize I wasn't there but it just doesn't "add up" (no pun intented).

[GovMan]

It just doesn't make sense.  With an official scorer, timer, and team scorer, how could all three have made the same mistake?  In addition, there is usually an assistant coach that keeps his eye on these kinds of things.  Besides, the fans always get on the timer in situations like that and start howling for them to change the display. 

 

Its possible there was a  mistake by the timer earlier in the period, and they finally got around to fixing the score on the display.  Did anyone confront the scorer right after the game?  Too many things don't make sense here.  Sorry, I realize I wasn't there but it just doesn't "add up" (no pun intented).

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Anthony,

 

I agree there are a lot of loose ends, but I was there and these are the facts. There is absolutely no question whatsoever, even from Clinton supporters, that Carpenters did not receive 2 points that they should have received. The basket in question happened incredibly quick. Neither the official book keeper--nor Carpenter's book keeper saw it happen. The scoreboard operator apparently did see it, because he initially put up the basket, but then retracted it.

 

Basically, for Carpenters, neither their book keeper, their assistant coach, nor their head coach saw the girl score the basket ... incredible I know, but absolutely the truth. The fans--both Carpenters and Clinton--did realize it, but we couldn't get the game stopped (Clinton fans I'm sure didn't want to). It was a tight game, Carpenters's hits a basket, the book keeper is looking down to record the score, both coaches are focused on the defensive end of the floor, and they just miss one of their little guards sneaking in, intercepting the inbounds, and scoring --all in about 2 seconds.

 

Most of the fans though, saw it happen and interestingly enough, to lend further credence to the story, the girl who stole the ball and scored--#13-Danielle Gibson--if you look in both teams books, is recorded as having 0 points.

 

Strange .... but definitely true.

[Bighurt]

I hate it when something like this happens but scorekeepers and refs are human like everyone else.

 

I have kept basketball scorebooks and operated the clock at high school games over the years. In either capacity, your ultimate job is to get the score correct.

 

Also, the scoreboard is not the ultimate authority. At most postseason tournaments, there is an official scorekeeper keeping their own scorebook independent of the scorekeepers for the individual teams. During the regular season, the home scorekeeper usually keeps the official book.

 

Scoring errors can and should be corrected when the clock is stopped or at any point prior to the officials leaving the floor at the completion of the game.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Bighurt

[Anthony17]

Govman -

 

You have to wonder why they put the score up and then retracted it. There has to be more to the story than meets the eye. For example, maybe there was a violation during the shot that negated the field goal.

 

Did anyone talk to the coach or assistant coach after the game?

Edited February 18, 2005 by Anthony17

[fastbreak101]

I have watched alot of the district games held at Jefferson, plus the one in question at Clinton, and the Regionals in Pigeon Forge, I have to say in those games I have seen the worst refs ever. It is terrible that these girls are playing their hearts out and get everything taken from them by terrible calls. Every Jefferson game I watched this year, Jefferson Middle has had the same ref every game. Then go to Pigeon Forge and Jefferson is playing and the same ref once again. Then I watched the Clinton vs Lafollette game and the two refs for this game are from Lafollette. I hate that the Carpenter team and the Clinton team had their season ending that way. Not taking anything from Lafollette girls they have been playing great ball and hope they win it all.

[GovMan]

Govman -

 

You have to wonder why they put the score up and then retracted it.  There has to be more to the story than meets the eye.  For example, maybe there was a violation during the shot that negated the field goal.

 

Did anyone talk to the coach or assistant coach after the game?

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Anthony,

 

My daughter is on the Carpenters team. I'm a volunteer assistant for the boys team. I talked to both girl's coaches immediately following the game. There were no violations. The scoreboard operator saw the "made basket" and clicked up the two points. Evidently then, the bookkeeper, who didn't see the basket, informed him the score should be two less and he took off the basket. Sadly, we had no one official on our bench who caught what happened to correct it. As I said, our bookkeeper MISSED IT TOO!!! I know it's hard to believe or fathom, but THERE IS NO MORE TO THIS STORY THAN I'VE ALREADY SHARED.

 

I've beat it to death though ... it's finished.