Ideals for new regions and state

[Drem2Achev]

The split between A-AA and AAA needs to happen. I truely believe this would make our sport grow in TN. If alot of other schools could participate in the success of the Bradleys, Clevelands, Soddy's, Clarksvilles. Smaller schools as a whole can not compete. This is why they split in other sports. Young men today do not come out like the used to.

 

I truely think it would help grow wresling. I do believe there is no downside.

 

Listen to DAL he is a smart guy.

Edited February 24, 2005 by Drem2Achev

[nashdude]

The split between A-AA and AAA needs to happen. I truely believe this would make our sport grow in TN. If alot of other schools could participate in the success of the Bradleys, Clevelands, Soddy's, Clarksvilles. Smaller schools as a whole can not compete. This is why they split in other sports. Young men today do not come out like the used to.

 

I truely think it would help grow wresling. I do believe there is no downside.

 

Listen to DAL he is a smart guy.

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That's a great idea in theory when you think about dual team championships (even though many would question it still). However, individuals are individuals and should have a shot at one title per weight class. This concept works really well in Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky. The state finals have some real power to them that is only fractionally there at the TN finals at UTC. Not to say they don't do a fabulous job, but the sport grows from competition, and dividing the schools into classes for an individual tournament where the team score isn't kept doesn't seem logical. When in Indiana and Illinois, the finals is done on one mat, with the arena darkened with a spotlight on the center mat. The kids enter to their names being announced from opposite ends of the arena, and walk to the cheering of the crowds til they meet at center mat to shake hands a wrestle like men. It's an experience I think our kids deserve, and there's no feeling like wrestling "under the lights"!

 

In my opinion, Georgia is a bad state to compare. I'm not sure I want anything to look like the way Georgia has done things, as I believe Georgia has missed the boat by stepping away from the NFHS rules on weight management, etc. In spite of the obvious problems we had this year, I think it is the right direction for our state, and my hat's off to Mr. Carter for taking us there regarding weight mgmt., but that's another topic altogether that we've discussed ad nauseum on here.

[DAL]

If the size of the school has no baring on whether a kid is a state champion or not, then why are all the other sports split into different classifications?

 

Yes, Tim Voiles was a State Champion. Where did he go to practice? Now, I was informed he went to other schools to practice. Not that there is anything wrong with that, It was very smart. He went to other places, just like I take some of my guys to other places, because of the quality of wrestlers in that other room.

 

An AA and AAA division would be very good for the sport and for the growth in the state of Tennessee. I'm not saying 5 classifications, like football has or wrestling in GA has, I am saying, just an AA and a AAA divisions for Div. I.

 

I promise if the TSSAA would put this into effect, we would see a huge growth in the sport of wrestling in the Volunteer State!

Edited February 24, 2005 by DAL

[ooooo]

I disagree with anyone who believes that a AA/AAA split would harm the sport. I'll state this one more time on coacht. Football has 7 divisions. Basketball has 5. Womens Basketball has 5. Baseball has 5. Tennis has 4. Soccer has 5.

 

Why not wrestling? Don't start spitting that old line that if we had 2 or 3 state champions it would be bad for the sport. Thats total B.S.

 

It would be great for the sport! There are no negatives associated with this idea. It would be GREAT for the sport and GREAT for the GROWTH of our sport.

 

YES Wrestling is a SPECIAL SPORT. We should demand for our sport to have the same opportunities that Football, Baseball, Soccer, etc has.

 

None complains about the multiple state football champions! They just hug that trophy and are proud of their efforts.

 

The split among D I  is needed. It would be great for our sport in Tennessee.

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Ok besides Tennis all of these other sports are team sports. You can spout off all you want about wrestling being a team sports but it's not. It's an individual sport. That why we have state duals. I believe the way the duals were this year was terrific. As for Individual state there should be one state. We could do like Georgia and split it up into 5 but then we would be nowhere just like Georgia and every other state in the south in Wrestling. If Tennessee was a bigger state I would agrre that it would be a good idea but the population isnt big enough to split it up. If California can have 1500 schools with wrestling programs and have one state champion there is no reason why Tennessee, who is way behind California in the Talent pool, can't have one state champion. I think the best state for high school wrestling in the country is Ohio and if Im not mistaken they only have two Championships which is understandable because their population is larger. The only states in the US that have one state champion are California, Indiana, New York, and Hawaii.(Maybe not New York) These states are all way ahead of ours. If we want to grow we need the best competition possible. We need a Double elimination, seeded by accomplishments during the current year, one true state championship. The winner can actually say hes the best.

[nashdude]

If the size of the school has no baring on whether a kid is a state champion or not, then why are all the other sports split into different classifications?

 

Yes, Tim Voiles was a State Champion. Where did he go to practice? Now, I was informed he went to other schools to practice. Not that there is anything wrong with that, It was very smart. He went to other places, just like I take some of my guys to other places, because of the quality of wrestlers in that other room.

 

An AA and AAA division would be very good for the sport and for the growth in the state of Tennessee. I'm not saying 5 classifications, like football has or wrestling in GA has, I am saying, just an AA and a AAA divisions for Div. I.

 

I promise if the TSSAA would put this into effect, we would see a huge growth in the sport of wrestling in the Volunteer State!

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DAL,

 

I think you're making an apples to oranges argument. What sport (aside from tennis) requires only one person? Just wrestling... You're comparing state championship teams (football, baseball, and basketball) versus State Champ (one athlete) in wrestling.

 

I'll sign off on separating the duals however you want, but I am a far bigger fan of one class for the Individual State.

 

I can't see how growth will result... Someone has already mentioned that GA hasn't seen growth in their system. How is does hurt our state is when we leave the state to compete, you see some state champs get crushed by kids from other states (IN, OH, etc.) because a state championship from Florida or TX doesn't mean anything from the private/small school division in many cases. I've seen a 3 time state champ pinned in 30 secs by a "mere" state qualifier (didn't medal) who was from Indiana, and it wasn't a fluke... the TX kid just stunk. When there's one state champ per weight class, that kid is most assuredly one tough dude who's a force to be reckoned with. Even then, runner-up has meaning too...

 

For example, a lot of folks compain on here about our D-II consolations rounds and how terrible they are at the state tournament. Citing that the D-II kids in the finals match can compete with the D-I kids, but the typical 3rd and 4th place finishers are weaker and would get hammered. Case in point that TN can't sustain a 2 class system well, much less a 4 class system (3 public, 1 private).

[DAL]

Track is an individual and team sport.

 

Golf is an individual and team sport.

 

Cross Country is an individual and team sport.

 

All these sports are organized in way which allows similar size schools to compete against one another.

 

WHY IS WRESTLING BEING DENIED THE SAME RIGHT THAT THESE SPORTS ARE ENJOYING?

 

To say we are way behind in wrestling ability to the state of Hawaii and Indiana is absurd.

 

Who give a rats behind what California does. There are alot of things people in California do that we don't do, thank God, in TENNESSEE. I am only interested in what will help our sport in TENNESSEE, and in my opinion, AA / AAA classifications will foster growth of skill and foster the growth of wrestling programs.

[tke]

Here are my ideas:

 

1)Keep the duals the way they are. D1 AAA, D1 A/AA, D2.

 

2)For the Individual State Tournament:

Combine D1 and D2, then make AA(Large schools public and private). Then have Class A (small schools public and private).

 

3) Class AA (Large Schools) have District, Regionals, State. I would have 8 Regions and qualify the top 3 from each and have a 24 man bracket. I know some will say it is not fair to the 4th place kid or the region that is tough, but THAT IS HOW POST SEASON WORKS!!!!! Every state has kids good enough to place sitting at home because their region is the toughest in the state. The kid that didn't qualify will have to work harder to make it to state next year. The state bracket would look like this:

 

Region Champion wrestles the winner of Region 2nd place and Region 3rd Place.

Place through the top 6.

 

4) Class A (small schools) . They will probably have fewer teams. So, have a 12 man bracket and place through the top 4. ( this will spark depbate)

 

IMO, we need to make it more of an accomplishment to be a state qualifier. I don't think a kid will quit because he or she was not a state qualifier. If he or she quits for that reason then they didn't want to wrestle.

 

This formula is good enough for Illinois, which has far more teams than Tennessee.

 

PA-2classes

IN-1 class

CA-1 class

WI-3 classes. (only top 2 from sectionals qualify in large schools).

OH-3 classes

IL-2 classes

NY-1 class I think

 

If we can combine private and public for the individuals, then maybe split them. IF not, leave it alone. (For Now!)

[Drem2Achev]

Nashdude what DAL and a few of us are saying is the sport needs opportunities to grow. If you give more people opportunity to have success it will grow. Kids from alot of states get crushed by kids from OH who never won a state title or made it to state so what. Most Tn. kids will never wrestle a kid from OH. PA. or IN. But I do know that at my school if there were pictures of 20 state champions and 50 state medalist hanging on the trophy walls wrestling would be a bigger deal. ALso we may have gotten some of our best athletes out over the last 30 years. Which would have possibly made better wrestlers which possibly would have made us more competitive with OH. PA. and anyone else.

 

Success breads success look at Baylor, Bradley and a few others. I believe alot of kids work as hard, but these schools have a confidence about them. At Bradley if your not a state medalist your a freak at my school your a freak if you are one. We need more chances for success. THat will grow the sport I love. Also we are only talking 2 classes in public A-AA is one class AAA is one class the private has there thing.

Edited February 25, 2005 by Drem2Achev

[rigger101]

Track is an individual and team sport.

 

Golf is an individual and team sport.

 

Cross Country is an individual and team sport.

 

All these sports are organized in way which allows similar size schools to compete against one another.

 

WHY IS WRESTLING BEING DENIED THE SAME RIGHT THAT THESE SPORTS ARE ENJOYING?

 

To say we are way behind in wrestling ability to the state of Hawaii and Indiana is absurd.

 

Who give a rats behind what California does. There are alot of things people in California do that we don't do, thank God, in TENNESSEE. I am only interested in what will help our sport in TENNESSEE, and in my opinion, AA / AAA classifications will foster growth of skill and foster the growth of wrestling programs.

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Strong point

[texas23]

Track is an individual and team sport.

 

Golf is an individual and team sport.

 

Cross Country is an individual and team sport.

 

All these sports are organized in way which allows similar size schools to compete against one another.

 

WHY IS WRESTLING BEING DENIED THE SAME RIGHT THAT THESE SPORTS ARE ENJOYING?

To say we are way behind in wrestling ability to the state of Hawaii and Indiana is absurd.

 

Who give a rats behind what California does. There are alot of things people in California do that we don't do, thank God, in TENNESSEE. I am only interested in what will help our sport in TENNESSEE, and in my opinion, AA / AAA classifications will foster growth of skill and foster the growth of wrestling programs.

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I am pretty sure it is not a RIGHT that is being denied. It is just a way in which the sport is organized.

[CoachBruce]

guys, I rail on this a lot, but it's because I Love Tennessee wrestling, Miss it a ton, and am now seeing firsthand what happens when you split up too much by size.

 

JUST LOOK AT VIRGINIA. there are maybe 40-50 programs in Single A (where I'm coaching now). my current Region (which we will try and are favored to win tomorrow) has 9 teams. not one of those teams fills every weight class. Double AA is probably the toughest all around, with Grundy and Christiansburg. But, my kids don't ever care about seeing or wrestling them because THEY DON'T MATTER. think I wouldn't Thoroughly enjoy a 84-0 drubbing at the hands of Great Bridge (only 90 minutes away--my region covers up to two hours away)?? I'd Pay Them for a match. but, no reason to, since it wouldn't count.

 

statewide, I've asked around about single A's success nationally, and am told that the most successful kid to ever go to Fargo from a Single A school "got one match from placing". there are MAYBE 3 kids in Division 1 NCAA, and all are walk-ons.

 

I am doing everything I can to get my kids exposure to TOP wrestling in Maryland and Delaware, and I think that is one reason we Are favored to win our region.

 

trust me, guys.....splitting Further is NOT the answer...not at all.

[maj]

I am pretty sure it is not a RIGHT that is being denied.  It is just a way in which the sport is organized.

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Emulating the 5 ( or whatever ) highschool divisions used in football will likely cause more problems than it solves and run the risk of diluting state titles to the point they are almost meaningless. Some of the weaker programs in the state come from schools that have a fairly large enrollment so size of the enrollment may not be a good measure. Feeder programs , coaching experiance, wreslting tradition etc are much more indicitive of potential success than the number of students. I would think the coaches to some extent can and probably do steer their schedules to compete against programs that are similar in ability and developement to their own.