Refs

[heather37211]

First of all, one has to know all the facts about a game before judging it.  It is true that sometimes a team be called for many more fouls than an opponent.  Most times, the strategy of the game is the reason.  A few years back, I was coaching a girls team and at half-time the fouls were something like 13 against us and 3 against our opponent.  Our fans were yelling at the referees to "call it both ways."  What the fans failed to realize is that I had my team pressing and playing an aggressive man-to-man defense while the other team was playing a zone.  I never complained about the officiating because I knew that the strategy I decided to employ was the reason, not the referees being biased.  I'm sure there have been cases where an official has blown a call, but most of the time, the referees are just calling what they see.  Besides, I highly doubt that any of us on this board have never made a mistake doing our jobs.  I know I've made many.   

 

That being said, it is true that the number of good referees has gone down the past few years.  When the vererans are retiring, there are not many waiting to fill their shoes.  There are still some great ones out there, and some good young ones.  The problem is the amount of respect that officials are given, mostly by fans.  I mean, would you want a job where you know you are going to be yelled at, berated, booed, called every name on Earth, cursed at, have your family degraded, and even threatened?  All for about $80 a night?  It's no wonder referees are getting harder to come by.  I wouldn't do it.  It's not worth it. 

 

Most fans don't even realize that officials are doing a favor to the players, coaches, and yes, even the fans by calling games.  What if the referees association decided that it wasn't worth the trouble and just stopped working?  The games wouldn't be played. 

 

The next time you want to complain about an official and blame a game on bad calls, look at your team's stat sheet.  If rebounds, free throws, and turnovers dont tell the story, then maybe, just maybe, you have the right to complain.  Until then, thank an official for doing his or her job so that we all can enjoy high school sports.

 

By the way, I'm not an official, not related to an official, have no desire to be an official, and was NOT held at gunpoint by an official and forced to write this. thumb

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I see what you are saying but for most of the game Forrest played zone and quit pressing to not get fouls. Yes, Forrest did foul a little to get the ball back, but the refs did not call the game anywhere close to "calling it both ways."

[5fan4ever]

First of all, one has to know all the facts about a game before judging it.  It is true that sometimes a team be called for many more fouls than an opponent.  Most times, the strategy of the game is the reason.  A few years back, I was coaching a girls team and at half-time the fouls were something like 13 against us and 3 against our opponent.  Our fans were yelling at the referees to "call it both ways."  What the fans failed to realize is that I had my team pressing and playing an aggressive man-to-man defense while the other team was playing a zone.  I never complained about the officiating because I knew that the strategy I decided to employ was the reason, not the referees being biased.  I'm sure there have been cases where an official has blown a call, but most of the time, the referees are just calling what they see.  Besides, I highly doubt that any of us on this board have never made a mistake doing our jobs.  I know I've made many.   

 

That being said, it is true that the number of good referees has gone down the past few years.  When the vererans are retiring, there are not many waiting to fill their shoes.  There are still some great ones out there, and some good young ones.  The problem is the amount of respect that officials are given, mostly by fans.  I mean, would you want a job where you know you are going to be yelled at, berated, booed, called every name on Earth, cursed at, have your family degraded, and even threatened?  All for about $80 a night?  It's no wonder referees are getting harder to come by.  I wouldn't do it.  It's not worth it. 

 

Most fans don't even realize that officials are doing a favor to the players, coaches, and yes, even the fans by calling games.  What if the referees association decided that it wasn't worth the trouble and just stopped working?  The games wouldn't be played. 

 

The next time you want to complain about an official and blame a game on bad calls, look at your team's stat sheet.  If rebounds, free throws, and turnovers dont tell the story, then maybe, just maybe, you have the right to complain.  Until then, thank an official for doing his or her job so that we all can enjoy high school sports.

 

By the way, I'm not an official, not related to an official, have no desire to be an official, and was NOT held at gunpoint by an official and forced to write this. thumb

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I have watched alot of basketball games this year and for the most part the officials did a respectable job however, I don't need to look at any teams stats to see what takes place in front of my face. I do believe there needs to be some accountability of the refs. They do not donate their time. Perhaps TSSAA would like to review some tapes in the off season and pick up their game.

[gpric5]

During one game this season, my daughter was in the game and went to the sideline to talk with the coach (she was still on the floor) and as she walked back toward the 3 point line, the ref told her not to enter the game until she was motioned to come into the game. She told the ref that she was already in the game and the ref didn't believe her, finally the coach convinced the ref that she was in the game. I know that there are problems with refs sometimes.

Having said the above, my question is: who wants to be a ref? I don't!!! They are in a no win situation. Part of the problem is that our society does demand perfection as well as most people hate to lose, so the ref is often the blame for the lost. A good team will always find a way to win!

Reasons to be a ref: low pay, people always mad at you, often away from your family, long hours, already tired from your 1st job. Those of you who complain, WHY DON'T YOU SIGN UP TO BE A REF?? I don't see many takers.

[coachcarterfan]

Refs must be held accountable. Right now there is none. Fired? No. Fined? No. Suspended? No. Sometimes demoted to JR. High so they can go home early. Not all officials are bad. But the ones that are, are terrible. The bad thing is to see a three man crew in which all three are bad. If a person at most other jobs do a bad job day after day, what happens? They are not around very long. Train the officials better and hold them accountable and the less people will complain.

[7Awatcher]

Refs must be held accountable.  Right now there is none.  Fired? No. Fined?  No. Suspended?  No. Train the officials better and hold them accountable and the less people will complain.

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Amen

[stats101]

I don't know if your schools are having as much of a problem with this as our area schools, but there needs to start being a fine line with what charges are and what they are not. We are having problems with refs calling fouls way after the foul happends and it really gets the players upset when a ref calls a foul late and the player that is guarding someone or has the ball at the time thinks they did something wrong.

 

I guess the two biggest problems I have with refs is when they call a foul on a person at least 3 feet away from someone with hands up on d and they call a foul on them. This is really bad when an opposing coach asks the ref about this. The other problem is when one ref calls something and another ref that is totally opposite of the ball comes and tells the ref that he is wrong and makes him change what he orgianlly said.

 

There are somethings that fans can live with and there are others that really have to be fixed so the game can be more enjoyable. Some of this is just stupid stuff and not called for. I have never seen a charged called so many different ways. For the players safety and to help make the job of the coaches easier.

[tex]

Refs must be held accountable.  Right now there is none.  Fired? No. Fined?  No. Suspended?  No.  Sometimes demoted to JR. High so they can go home early.  Not all officials are bad.  But the ones that are, are terrible.  The bad thing is to see a three man crew in which all three are bad.  If a person at most other jobs do a bad job day after day, what happens?  They are not around very long.  Train the officials better and hold them accountable and the less people will complain.

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That is a joke as long as players play and coaches coach fans will cry about refs no matter how good or bad they are. And it is only getting worse

[getthatstuffoutahere]

Nice post, 7AAwatcher. I can't say I disagree with what you say, but I can't agree with everything you say, either.

 

Well, here are some black and white statistics: Cookeville was called for 31 fouls, Lebanon for 22. Cookeville shot 20 free throws, Lebanon 45. In the second half, Cookeville shot eight free throws, Lebanon 33.

I was in attendance for the game you mention above. There was a discrepancy in freethrows but it was because Cookeville had to send Lebanon to the foul line in the 4th quarter to get possession of the ball. You see it all time. The team that is behind on the scoreboard almost always has a huge disadvantage in freethrows becasue of the "unintentional-intentional" foul.

in the Cookeville girl's Thursday night game against White County, they were called for 18 second-half fouls and WCHS 11, leading to WCHS getting 20 free throws in the fourth quarter and Cookeville six --

I wasn't at this game but because White Co. won, I would have to assume the same situation occured here as in the Lebanon game. Cookeville simply sent White Co. to the line to get the ball back.

Others in attendance at the game who had no dog in the hunt clearly saw how Cookeville was getting shafted.

Because of the first 2 points you make, I must assume you are a Cookeville fan. Well that kinda nullifies this quote. There are fans that see every call as right and wrong. The officiating did not seem to be top notch, but it did go both ways.

"But nor does TSSAA hold coaches accountable if they hold the press on too long and they give up five layups.  "We compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. We don't hold players accountable for not blocking out or missing free throws."

 

But this analogy misses the point, and (dare I say it?) compares apples to, well, oranges. If a coach holds the press on too long and causes the team to lose a game enough times, he or she will be fired. If a player misses enough box-outs or free throws, his teammates won't trust him and his coach will bench him.

 

Getting fired or benched is the result of being held accountable.

 

This is a great point. Coaches and players ARE held accountable, not to officials, but to their own administrators and coaches, respectively. I have yet see or hear about an official being fired or even suspended. That is not accountability. Referrees have to fear some kind of evaluation process. Not being able to officiate the state tournament is not punishment.

 

I don't think officials cheat. I do think some are weak. In a game I saw the other night, one team had a 10-2 advantage in fouls called. I mentioned to my buddy that we should not worry about it because the fouls would catch up. They did. Did one team suddenly stop fouling and the other suddenly start fouling? Did the officials feel the pressure to even out the fouls? I don't know, I just know that these situations invariably even themselves out.

 

That all being said, the officiating is as bad as I have ever seen. It is a bad sign when the first thing you do at a game is look to see who is referring. BUT, that is what I do. One team on this same night as above had shot 3 or 4 offensive rebounds from the paint. They kept rebounding and trying to tip it in. The ball was in constant motion. A whistle blows, "3 second violation." WHAT? I'm just watching, not really interested in who wins, but that is just not knowing the rules. And this was in a regional tournament, supposedly your best referrees.

 

To me offiicals can do virtually anything they want and there is not one thing a coach can to about it. Coaches have no recourse. Sure, they can blackball an official for a homegame, but what fool would do that? You'll certainly see them on the road, and I do believe some officials are vindictive.

 

I don't know the answer, but when officials want to be seen, they have lost their effectiveness. Nothing is better than to NOT be able to recall who referreed the game.

Edited March 6, 2005 by getthatstuffoutahere

[tellicobearfan]

Well, I agree that the officiating is getting worse. The thing is, it is bad at all levels, mainly college and high school. It seems to be a trickling down effect. I went to Tennessee Tech, and saw an official calling one of our games. This was a 5AA official, and I thought he was one of the worst officials in our district. He is a total butt whipe, and a smart elect. I believe you are going to have to pay these guys more, and give better training. There is no doubt some fans can be so ignorant of the game, and lets their emotion get ahead of them. I know how stupid I can look by watching other fans. But then again, some officials do make it harder on certian players. It should not be that way. Refs get payed to call the game, not to let their emotions get them. This problem will not be fixed over night, and really needs a total overhaul. This needs to be fixed from the top down, before it truly gets out of hand.

[RHill93354]

Well i would like to say that the 3 they sent to Chattanooga for the sub-state game really help the other team have a shot at the game and that one shot won the game for them. I just Hope that been a Ref is not there REAL JOB

[bballmom]

I'll be so glad when they fire them all and use ROBOTS!!!! LOL

First let me say I'm not (REPEAT I AM NOT) blaming the refs for the OS loss @ EHS on 3/5 but everyone warned anybody coming into that gym about the officiating and even the ones who came from I GUESS region 3 or 4 called it HORRIBLE. But I'm not surprised there are very very few quality refs out there.

They need to filmed and then graded and suspended or fired!!!!

Heck these days even my blind self could do it, just imagine a part time tax free job and NO ONE to answer too!!!! Where do we sign up, LOL.....

[barb]

I'll be so glad when they fire them all and use ROBOTS!!!! LOL

First let me say I'm not (REPEAT I AM NOT) blaming the refs for the OS loss @ EHS on 3/5 but everyone warned anybody coming into that gym about the officiating and even the ones who came from I GUESS region 3 or 4 called it HORRIBLE. But I'm not surprised there are very very few quality refs out there.

They need to filmed and then graded and suspended or fired!!!!

Heck these days even my blind self could do it, just imagine a part time tax free job and NO ONE to answer too!!!! Where do we sign up, LOL.....

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We in Greeneville had the misfortune of playing at good ol Betsy and I can tell you it would have been much worse had you had Watauga Conference refs. I think Betsy scored most of their points from the free throw line. However....... We were fortunate to have the same sad crew officiate our sub-state game against Oak Ridge and was rather happy for their poor officiating skills as a slight majority of their pitiful calls went against Oak Ridge.