Every key stroke must have been made

[itzme]

A revisionist's theory of events regarding

the "majority" creating the D2 classification.

 

The private "financial aid" schools made

the push for a D2 classification. Go back

and find out what actually created the D2

classification.

 

Before the split, there was an agreed upon

number of financial aid students who could

participate in particular sports. The private

secondary schools violated those rules, and

after much debate, agreed that a separate

classification would be a more desirable alternative.

 

And we are not talking simply about football.

An accurate record and version of what happened

might help produce a better understanding of what

is being debated.

What a gross mis-characterization. That might fly in a debate with people who are not informed on the subject, but is truly laughable here.

[commander1]

I'm not taking sides in this issue but would like a few things answered. However, the conversation keeps branching off into the old, very predictable arguments. What I am wanting to know is what, in your opinion, will happen if the TSSAA no longer exists.

coacht I moved here from a state that operated under a sports school board state

wide. There were representitives from ever classification from the whole state. Mostly made up of AD's and asst. principals they did a great job without being one-sided or political. You could only serve a certain amount of years and were only paid a stepid for a salary so people didn't base decisions because of their paychecks. I believe in a governing body, HOWEVER Mr. Carter and his dictatorship is not good for anyone except Mr. Carter.

[tnsddeveloper]

My point is that I believe that it would be better if it had different leadership that was more balanced and proactive, looking for solutions that would be enhancing for high school sports, not destructive to some members.

Amen! The one thing getting lost in this discussion is that every decision being made is for and affects kids. I'm with you ... lets get a proactive, balanced group of individuals to run the organization.

[bigchief]

Again, D1 privates can not offer any financial aid to any athlete for any reason. I have never heard of work study programs at a high school of any sort. The only place that I've heard of a work study program would be at the college baseball program that I played at.

The rebuttal to the fairness to Trousdale would be this ... is it just good coaching that gets Trousdale to the top? And, they opted to play in 3A before and were very, very competitive ... they can easily handle that type of competition. Maybe there is some sort of competitive advantage that they have like a good network of alumni that get athletes to move into the county ... maybe even use a relatives mailing address to be able to play there. That seems to be the complaint about privates schools, magnets, and open zoners. That is what is so nice about the merit system, you play to the level of competition that you are.

 

And I seriously doubt they would hit the Riverdale, Maryville, Hillsboro echelon. They may end up playing the McGavocks of the world due to their lack of winning, but they would never have the numbers to hang with the real big boys.

 

Someone else might have some info regarding if any other states do it - I do not personally although I think maybe Rhode Island does it.

Work-study programs are at virtually every private school in this area, good buddy. You know that I have "working knowledge" of several. The kids perform some type of work on campus and are "paid" minimum wage for doing the service. The money is then deducted from their tuition owed. I have seen kids cleaning up the campus, keeping the clock for a middle school game, taking tickets at games, mowing grass, painting hallways, taking trash out, working the chains at middle school football games, etc. Some schools document fully and do a good job of keeping it real. Others do not.I would have thought you would be up-to-date on work study. It has been done at FCS. I don't know about now, but it has in the past. No one has squeaky-clean hands in this debate and it will never be solved. Also, don't be so sure about it being a fantasy world of a complete split. It has been suggested by several D.2 schools that they form their own association. One school even went so far as to ask other currently D.1 schools if they would change allegiance if it happened in order to gauge interest. Should it happen? No. Will it? I wouldn't write it off.

[tnsddeveloper]

Work-study programs are at virtually every private school in this area, good buddy. You know that I have "working knowledge" of several. The kids perform some type of work on campus and are "paid" minimum wage for doing the service. The money is then deducted from their tuition owed. I have seen kids cleaning up the campus, keeping the clock for a middle school game, taking tickets at games, mowing grass, painting hallways, taking trash out, working the chains at middle school football games, etc. Some schools document fully and do a good job of keeping it real. Others do not.I would have thought you would be up-to-date on work study. It has been done at FCS. I don't know about now, but it has in the past. No one has squeaky-clean hands in this debate and it will never be solved. Also, don't be so sure about it being a fantasy world of a complete split. It has been suggested by several D.2 schools that they form their own association. One school even went so far as to ask other currently D.1 schools if they would change allegiance if it happened in order to gauge interest. Should it happen? No. Will it? I wouldn't write it off.

Thanks for the update. It wasn't done at FCS in my day, but there is nothing saying that it wasn't before, after, or currently. Sounds like the kids get minimum wage jobs with the school.

 

I prefer some sort of merit system. However, I do know that it is a distinct possibility that some, if not all, the privates might conceive their own organization that takes care of their needs. I guess I should have prefaced my comment better that a split won't be forced by public school supporters. If a split does happen, it will be a private school creation.

 

I actually had an extended conversation with two private school coaches (both head coaches at the private your wife teaches at actually) recently and the idea of a private organization being organized by privates was discussed heavily. Both are for it ... but have reservations about the number of schools that would come with them. They felt like it would take a large majority of them to make a decent organization. From what I understand, whoever is trying to head that up has also made contact with private schools from border states to see if they had any interest in joining too - like Madison Academy in Huntsville and a few out of state Memphis area private schools.

[big red big blue]

I'm not taking sides in this issue but would like a few things answered. However, the conversation keeps branching off into the old, very predictable arguments. What I am wanting to know is what, in your opinion, will happen if the TSSAA no longer exists.

 

I think it will mean a complete public and private split, two separate governing organizations, and complete chaos in the state. And I think that is a very likely outcome, given how contentuous this debate has become. I do think there is a great opportunity for middle-ground compromises--like a system in which all schools play local, inter-public-private, regular season schedules and separate post-seasons--but there has to be the political will for that to happen, and I don't see anyone wanting to do anything to help the private schools. Not when a school like mine could only fill out a regular season football schedule by playing (in addition to teams from Memphis and Chattanooga) teams from all over the southeast.

 

 

If the TSSAA collapses, it will be up to the majority leadership (publics) of a new organization to determine what is more valuable: satisfying the will of the majority (e.g., the overwhelming vote against the multiplier and for complete separation 2 years ago) or alienating the privates to the point that they just leave altogether and form their own league without any sort of accountabliity to their organization. Everyone will lose in that situation, so I'm hopefully that when the disastrous reign of Ronnie Carter is over his successors have more foresight and wisdom than he did.

[CoachT]

Everyone will lose in that situation, so I'm hopefully that when the disastrous reign of Ronnie Carter is over his successors have more foresight and wisdom than he did.

Why do opponents blame Ronnie Carter and not the Board of Control and/or the Legislative Council of the TSSAA?

[incrediblefan]

Rhode Island does operate under the merit system. I emailed them to find out more specifics; their system works with a 60-40 system (40% comes from enrollment and 60% comes from team's record). The memoarandum they emailed me wasn't very clear, but it is something to look at.

 

http://www.nasports.com/members/documents/...iteria_Memo.pdf

[tnsddeveloper]

Rhode Island does operate under the merit system. I emailed them to find out more specifics; their system works with a 60-40 system (40% comes from enrollment and 60% comes from team's record). The memoarandum they emailed me wasn't very clear, but it is something to look at.

 

http://www.nasports.com/members/documents/...iteria_Memo.pdf

Thanks for the link. That is very interesting stuff.

[VolunteerGeneral]

 

If the TSSAA collapses, it will be up to the majority leadership (publics) of a new organization to determine what is more valuable: satisfying the will of the majority (e.g., the overwhelming vote against the multiplier and for complete separation 2 years ago)

 

Actually that is not true. There was no overwhelming vote for a split. That was one of the choices, but so were leave things as is and the multiplier. If the overwhelming amount of scools wanted a total split then that would have shown up in the final results. It just did not happen that way. By far the majority voted to for some way to keep privates involved with Div. I. whether by leaving things alone or with a multiplier. There is no way a majority voted for a split. They had their chance to do so but didn`t.

[CPGB06]

OKAY>>>> I WAS WRONG>>>

 

Not every key stroke has been made....

 

 

But it is still boring!

 

In reading what is said on this forum by proponents of public schools, you would think that people that run private schools are the most evil and conniving people in the world.

[big red big blue]

Why do opponents blame Ronnie Carter and not the Board of Control and/or the Legislative Council of the TSSAA?

 

because, as Itzme wrote, pure democracy can't work when those with a numerical advantage have incentive to propose and adopt rules (like DII) to the detriment of those in the minority. What his position has needed for years is a strong leader who has the fortitude not just to bend to the will of those with the numbers, but to propose thoughtful, and just (if not popular) solutions. He has said many times that he was opposed to the formation of DII all along. Well, then why didn't he exercise some leadership and propose some sort of "cooling off period" during which the issues could be studied? Maybe everything would have reverted to the normal condition following those two years...but we got a knee-jerk reaction that upset decades of tradition in one swift action, without any real basis other than "that's what a bunch of people are asking for."