TSSAA Officials

[bucdaddio]

Hold the presses.

 

Just got back from a tournament in Alabama, and we should be a little more understanding of our TSSAA officials. If they feel they are working too hard here, they should move to Alabama, where their job would be easier, because, trust me on this,

THERE ARE NO FOULS IN ALABAMA!

I will say it was consistent, but nothing much gets called. Bumps, hand-checks, moving screens, over-the-back, anything goes.

Edited December 26, 2006 by bucdaddio

[PHargis]

Hold the presses.

 

Just got back from a tournament in Alabama, and we should be a little more understanding of our TSSAA officials. If they feel they are working too hard here, they should move to Alabama, where their job would be easier, because, trust me on this,

THERE ARE NO FOULS IN ALABAMA!

I will say it was consistent, but nothing much gets called. Bumps, hand-checks, moving screens, over-the-back, anything goes.

Absolutely correct and the Alabama teams will always win. Gitls were physically beaten up. Good except can't play like that in Tennessee and don't want to because of numerous serious injuries.

[bucdaddio]

Absolutely correct and the Alabama teams will always win. Gitls were physically beaten up. Good except can't play like that in Tennessee and don't want to because of numerous serious injuries.

 

Actually, a Tennessee team (GPS) did win this thing, but they had to endure a phantom foul on a 3-pointer at the buzzer by the Alabama team, that had GPS's coach going ballistic, so yeah, you're right.

[Indian]

I appreciate the posts on here and their passion and sincerety but what is evident is there are Ref's who take this seriously and the ones complained about are really not on this site.

The real question hasn't been asked I think and although some have alluded to it, no one has made a suggestion. The TSSAA farms out officiating to Associations all over the state to do what Associations do including TRAINING OFFICIALS. It should be more than filling out an application to call and its thought in some ASSOCIATIONS it is more than that and is monitored. Ever so often one might run in to an Association which might be a little out of touch, not often, but sometimes. I really don't know who is in charge of these Associations and have been told in some parts of the state they are loosely organized organizations who just do their thing.

 

Certainly if there is any truth in what has been posted and the complaints are valid, one should understand what Association the officials come out of, but be clear, some of these posts are right about the way the ones who are trying to do a good job are sensitive to it. What most are posting are TRAINING and JUDGEMENT ISSUES that no one official or ASSOCIATION OF OFFICIALS want to be connected with because it is a reflection on them also.

 

If the ASSOCIATION OFFICIALS cannot take care of their group, which i assure you they can, they should lose their accreditation to have an association and it should be given to someone else. These are professional people that referee mostly for the love of it and drive howsomany miles. They are graded, so I understand it, by the schools they service for each game. How often has an association been chastised by the TSSAA. Probably never. They likely assume the Association will take care of it and they can

 

It is likely the officials you are talking about according to some posts on here are about 15% of the officials. That means that possible one of three in a team might need training and may be being trained before your eyes. Some referees have posted on here, and have been very candid, that they have asked not to be paired with some officials for various reasons. If the reason has some validity, then it is the job of the ASSOCIATION OFFICIALS to take some kind of corrective action. I could not believe officials want to be mistaken in public where all can see unless they have a chip on their shoulder and I have not seen that happen.

 

I have seen, in the games I ahve watched, a distinct improvement in the professionalism and the technical aspects the past five years. but I believe instead of posting to be posting, that ,as some do, post the game and in addition, the Association and not try to broadbrush and characterize all Referees not good to fit your own partisonship. That way if an Association does not generally meet the standards of the TSSAA, someone with the TSSAA can be notified with facts. These are ASSOCIAION PROBLEMS that they are willing to be on top of is my opinion but sometimes my opinions may be flawed.

 

The game I was talking about last week was Sequatchie playing against Dalton High School, undefeated at the time, in the Dalton Christmas tournament. Those were Georgia refs so can't blame anyone from Tennessee. They didn't get any better, different crews, in two other games that week even though one of those was a 30-point win, it was clear they tried to even it up. One ref even yelled up into the stands and asked a fan if she wanted his whistle, after he was being called out after ignoring several hard fouls by the local team. The only game in Tennessee I thought was one-sided was Sequatchie at Upperman, due to the inconsistency of what was being called a foul on one end and not the other. One of the best players for Seq had two offensive fouls when she was being held in the lane, that was disappointing, first of all that the holds weren't called then that she got the fouls. The second one was her fifth, when the game was still not out of reach. Seq lost at Heritage and I don't remember anything significant about the refs so I'm not just complaining about losses, that's further away than Baxter.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Indian

[gamesetmatch]

Actually, a Tennessee team (GPS) did win this thing, but they had to endure a phantom foul on a 3-pointer at the buzzer by the Alabama team, that had GPS's coach going ballistic, so yeah, you're right.

 

 

I attended the game and there are really to many calls to post. GPS had a 15 point lead with 5 minutes to go, when the Ft. Payne Coach began working the officials. In the last minutes there was a "charge" where the GPS girl ended up on the ground after splitting the Ft Payne defenders. She got up went to line and as the official approached the score table and the Ft Payne coach, he signaled the offensive foul. Next was the lane violation where the official did not hold his arm out and called it following the miss and a signal from the Ft Payne Coach (all on film). Finally the phantom foul was a block and the Ft Payne player flopped to the gound. Once again the official signaled no shot until he approached the table and Ft Payne coach and then signaled a foul. All of these are on film! This was GPS's third trip to Ft Payne and you will see this everytime. Last year's final saw Ft Payne shoot 36 free throws to Eufaula's 16 in a four point victory. The only surprising part of this year was that they did not attach a technical somehow to insure 5 free throws to make 4 for the win. My suggestion to all TN schools is to attend this tournament if you want a physical game but don't go there to win.....It is hard to beat 8. Sorry, I meant 9......Ft Payne dribbled the length and across the court to shoot the phantom 3 pointer in 2.8 seconds......she must be pretty quick. Being generous, the film shows at least 4 seconds passed.

[PHargis]

I attended the game and there are really to many calls to post. GPS had a 15 point lead with 5 minutes to go, when the Ft. Payne Coach began working the officials. In the last minutes there was a "charge" where the GPS girl ended up on the ground after splitting the Ft Payne defenders. She got up went to line and as the official approached the score table and the Ft Payne coach, he signaled the offensive foul. Next was the lane violation where the official did not hold his arm out and called it following the miss and a signal from the Ft Payne Coach (all on film). Finally the phantom foul was a block and the Ft Payne player flopped to the gound. Once again the official signaled no shot until he approached the table and Ft Payne coach and then signaled a foul. All of these are on film! This was GPS's third trip to Ft Payne and you will see this everytime. Last year's final saw Ft Payne shoot 36 free throws to Eufaula's 16 in a four point victory. The only surprising part of this year was that they did not attach a technical somehow to insure 5 free throws to make 4 for the win. My suggestion to all TN schools is to attend this tournament if you want a physical game but don't go there to win.....It is hard to beat 8. Sorry, I meant 9......Ft Payne dribbled the length and across the court to shoot the phantom 3 pointer in 2.8 seconds......she must be pretty quick. Being generous, the film shows at least 4 seconds passed.

It is obvious that this year more than any other time I can remember, more teams are playing out of state. Teams are traveling as far as Las Vegas and if I remember right, earlier in the year a team was in California. I'm not sure who contacts who in these situations but Tennessee teams are getting the exposure. maybe its good as some of the playdays before the season started were filled with College/University coaches. BUT, if particular tournaments seem to be an entrance to getting someone hurt or being drastically treated, I am sure some coaches would like to know that this will be the case. A team who whent to Mississippi this summer had the same results in Jackson and it became a very tough situation. Sure, hard to say too much but the story is getting around and it will be hard to get some of these good Tennessee teams to show up at some of these Tournaments.

[agitator53]

Why don't you guys quit your bitching and take a ref class and put on the stripes. Its easy to be a referee from the bleachers, but try to be one from the court - its a little bit harder.

 

As a TSSAA referee, I can tell you that I could care less one bit about what all you armchair referees in the bleachers call or yell. I've been called it all, and don't really care. I call what I see, not what you see from the bleachers. You want a say about what's going on on the court - put on a referees uniform. We don't see it all, but that's why there's three of us on the court. You can't watch all 10 players at one time.

 

And keep in mind. The refs don't even see the same game as you do. They are the only unbiased people in the entire gymnasium. As a fan, you're either biased towards your children, or towards your team. As a player, you're biased towards your team, and as a coach you're biased towards your team. There's nobody else left in the gym who isn't biased - except the referees.

 

Do you scream at the referees when your son hammers another player and the ref didn't blow the whistle? Do you scream at the ref when the other team knocks the ball out of bounds off of your son's foot, but gives it back to your son's team. Do you yell and scream in your living room when your watching Colorado State playSan Jose State, probably not - because you're not biased towards one team or the other, its just basketball. But put yourself into a gymnasium with your son's or daughter's team and you see an entirely different game.

 

Do we get it right all the time. Absolutely not. Are all refs great refs - probably not. Foul recognition is the determining factor, in my opinion, as to what makes a good ref. Once you've done it for a while, you have a good idea of what to look for. Each referee is going to have variations in the quickness of 10 seconds over the half court line, or distance between playeers to get a 5 count. But referees also adjust calling on a game by game basis. Two HS power teams with blue chip players should have a game called tighter than a JV game involving freshmen. And of course you always find quality differences in referees just as you find quality differences in basketball players, coaches and fans.

 

Just remember, we don't see the same game as you do - and its not that we don't see the same game, its that you can't.

 

I agree in part. I'm also "on the floor" for other reasons, actually not on the playing surface but pretty close. Most officials do an excellent job of keeping order, letting the kids play enough to learn, and in genereal providing for a good game. It's that small percentage that gives the rest of you guys & gals a bad name. I've had officials stop and ask me if I saw what another official called, not just for information but couldn't believe the call himself! My "gripe" is when one player is allowed to constantly "hammer" the other players and not be called for it. I've seen that several times this season, and it's disturbing. It's just a matter of time until the other players get fed up and "put and end" to the problem with a good foul. I have been to the "classes" and worn the official patches. That doesn't change the fact that there are some officials calling high school games that shouldn't be allowed on the playing surface! Maybe if the "good" officials will join the coaches and fans in trying to get rid of those who should not be there things will improve for all of us! Thanks for wearing the "stripes" and putting up with all our complaining! You don't get paid enough, but at least you get paid!

 

Stirring the pot! Live to agitate!

[whistleblower]

Great post Whistleblower. I believe, like any other profession (or hobby) you're going to occasionally run into people that aren't great at what they do, or that maybe have bad attitudes. I've seen that some with refs, probably a lot more with coaches.

 

Here's a question, from someone who coaches a little to someone who referees. How do you like a coach to "plead his or her case with you?" Are you ok with coaches talking to you while you're working? Asking you maybe to watch someone who's camping out in the lane, or who's holding, or not getting set on a screen? I'm learning more and more that making the refs your enemy ain't gonna get you anywhere, but if I'm level headed and don't make a scene or show you up, will you listen to me and maybe watch harder for something that's being missed?

 

Who are some coaches who the refs respect and even look forward to working their games?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of us will talk to / with coaches all night long as long as a coach is talking to us and not yelling, shouting across the floor, using hand gyrations, etc.. If a coach gets to the whining part or personal part of it, the conversation stops on our part. I personally will talk all night long with a coach as long as the conversation is in the right way. Their has to be conversation between a coach and officials all game long, but when a coach takes it to another level, the conversation is over.

 

There are many coaches who do a good job in communicating with officials. However, I will say there are some coaches that absolutely refuse to handle communication in a positive way. They are determined to yell and use their hands at you yet are the first to cry that you won't talk to them.

 

Hope that helps!

[PHargis]

Most of us will talk to / with coaches all night long as long as a coach is talking to us and not yelling, shouting across the floor, using hand gyrations, etc.. If a coach gets to the whining part or personal part of it, the conversation stops on our part. I personally will talk all night long with a coach as long as the conversation is in the right way. Their has to be conversation between a coach and officials all game long, but when a coach takes it to another level, the conversation is over.

 

There are many coaches who do a good job in communicating with officials. However, I will say there are some coaches that absolutely refuse to handle communication in a positive way. They are determined to yell and use their hands at you yet are the first to cry that you won't talk to them.

 

Hope that helps!

Yes, this helps but I will ask you a question which answer might answer other questions. How do you justify something going on between Officials and Coaches that really a lot of fans really don't care about to the way it effects the players and calls made for or against them. The game really is for the players and should not be effected by any feelings between two adults.

[greenevillefan]

what about officials not talking to women coaches, but will conversate the whole game with a man coach?

[wormy1]

Why does a ref. tell a player or players to not put their hands in the opp. face???????That happened in Smyrna tonight.!!!!!

[PHargis]

Why does a ref. tell a player or players to not put their hands in the opp. face???????That happened in Smyrna tonight.!!!!!

For a referee to answer that more details may be needed and maybe events leading up to the situation. Was this face guarding? It is a good question.