If It walks like a Duck

[Grunt]

Wrong Baldcoach, I have used Trousdale as an example. For the last two seasons they have had around 30. Hampton has been fairly successful for the last two seasons, they have around 40, The better private schools with alot less enrollment have more kids playing. Its also my guess,they all attend the workout programs. Just not that way in public schools. You can kick them off the team ,which is against the rules, or lose alot of kids.

 

 

The 30 figure for Trousdale will work every yr. We finished with 28 this yr.

 

Difference is, ex: Private school...enrollment 300, roster 50 / Public school

... enrollment 300, roster 30. Now how the heck did that happen? Just more

kids that can't wait to get a helmet on? Not likely! Selective admission? Hmmm!

[Baldcoach]

The 30 figure for Trousdale will work every yr. We finished with 28 this yr.

 

Difference is, ex: Private school...enrollment 300, roster 50 / Public school

... enrollment 300, roster 30. Now how the heck did that happen? Just more

kids that can't wait to get a helmet on? Not likely! Selective admission? Hmmm!

 

define 'selective admission'. You and Grunt (your twin?) have used it several times and I still don't know exactly what you mean by it.

 

Now why in the world would TC only have 30 kids out? Great tradition, undefeated state champs last year, good coaching and community support...what is going on?

[lazarus]

"Now why in the world would TC only have 30 kids out? Great tradition, undefeated state champs last year, good coaching and community support...what is going on?"

 

thats soooo easy.

remember the kids that arent in your "not selective" student body?

the kids that cant make the grades, the kids who have discipline problems,

the kids whose parents cant afford tuition, the kids whose parents think sports are a waste of time, the kids whose parents just plain dont care?

take those kids out of the population, and TC probably has as good a turnout as you do. maybe better.

 

that doesnt mean none of those kids play. some of them manage to overcome the odds and make it. for those kids football really does something worthwhile. it can make a difference in their lives.

 

some of us seem to think it is sufficient to pass judgement on what parents should or shouldnt be, or provide, for their children. some of us feel that we have an obligation to try to do something good for kids that arent getting what they should get.

[Grunt]

 

define 'selective admission'. You and Grunt (your twin?) have used it several times and I still don't know exactly what you mean by it.

 

Now why in the world would TC only have 30 kids out? Great tradition, undefeated state champs last year, good coaching and community support...what is going on?

 

 

Selective admission has been discussed on another thread, but the gist of it is,

a given private school ( don't know which school you are affiliated with, if any ),

can select which students are admitted to the school. Ex: To stay in Class 1A,

for example you must stay within a certain size enrollment. To go after that

"gold ball" you could select students(athletes) that could further that cause,

and reject another that could not. The reason this argument comes up is

the athlete:enrollment ration privates have compared to publics. It is way

out of balance to the point of raising eyebrows, even in the media. The

Tennessean had a story on this around the 1st. of Dec.

Thing is, if privates are going to continually walk like a duck, they are going

to be perceived as a duck.

 

Now, why in the world does TC only have 30 kids out? Simple, that's all

that are available for one reason or another. It would be foolish to think if

TC had 60 players available, we would send the other 30 back to the house.

TC is one of the smallest counties population/area/student wise in the state.

Not all boys are interested in football, which is hard for us old football fans

to figure, I suppose, but that's the way it is. I have 3 step-grandsons in

another county, neither of which has any interest in football.

Some of the kids that do come out in TC, don;t make the team for various

reasons. Some that do don't stay. Making the team in TC is tough. Some

can't handle that, some don't even try. The ones that do, are ready to play

come Fri. nite.

[Antwan]

define 'selective admission'. You and Grunt (your twin?) have used it several times and I still don't know exactly what you mean by it.

 

Now why in the world would TC only have 30 kids out? Great tradition, undefeated state champs last year, good coaching and community support...what is going on?

 

They've always had about 30 or less kids out. In that title season last year...they had about 30 then too.

[supersteve17]

The great Cleveland High teams of the 80's and 90's under Benny Monroe always only had around 30 to 35 playing 3A (when there were only 3) and 4A ball. Coach Monroe said that was the way he liked it. He didn't want any more than that. I heard him say it. I wonder if Satterfield feels the same way? Realistically that's about all you need in high school if it is the right 30-35. Tyner in the late 90's through today is another example of that. Obiously there is a low point at which numbers make a difference, but probably a good percentage of those 50-60 at many private schools are just "along for the ride," so to speak.

[rappy]

The great Cleveland High teams of the 80's and 90's under Benny Monroe always only had around 30 to 35 playing 3A (when there were only 3) and 4A ball. Coach Monroe said that was the way he liked it. He didn't want any more than that. I heard him say it. I wonder if Satterfield feels the same way? Realistically that's about all you need in high school if it is the right 30-35. Tyner in the late 90's through today is another example of that. Obiously there is a low point at which numbers make a difference, but probably a good percentage of those 50-60 at many private schools are just "along for the ride," so to speak.

You must be talking about the 30 to 35 being on varsity, not on the JV and freshman teams. Gallatin team this year had little over 50 seniors on the varsity.

 

If you don't have the numbers year in and out, you cannot compete at the top level consistently. The fall off on one graduating class from one year would hurt the following year class if the numbers of players were not available.

[supersteve17]

You must be talking about the 30 to 35 being on varsity, not on the JV and freshman teams. Gallatin team this year had little over 50 seniors on the varsity.

 

If you don't have the numbers year in and out, you cannot compete at the top level consistently. The fall off on one graduating class from one year would hurt the following year class if the numbers of players were not available.

 

I'm not sure about whether that number is varsity plus JV or what. I know the 50-60 number that is thrown around for many of the private schools is including freshmen, JV and everyone. My point is that while numbers may be important to some degree, big numbers are often overrated. I know a couple of years ago Cookeville had 36 or so seniors on their roster. Realistically, they could never use 36 players in every class. At some point "numbers" don't really make much difference. Benny Monroe, who knows a little bit more about coaching high school football than the average bear, only wanted 30-something players. I would not presume to speak for all his reasons, but it makes sense if you think about it. Numbers can become overkill.

[BDURHAM]

Benny Monroe's philosophy has changed in more ways than one.

He has more than 30 players at Ooltewah, and he he's not running

the Wing-T 100% of the time.

 

I'm not sure about whether that number is varsity plus JV or what. I know the 50-60 number that is thrown around for many of the private schools is including freshmen, JV and everyone. My point is that while numbers may be important to some degree, big numbers are often overrated. I know a couple of years ago Cookeville had 36 or so seniors on their roster. Realistically, they could never use 36 players in every class. At some point "numbers" don't really make much difference. Benny Monroe, who knows a little bit more about coaching high school football than the average bear, only wanted 30-something players. I would not presume to speak for all his reasons, but it makes sense if you think about it. Numbers can become overkill.

[supersteve17]

Benny Monroe's philosophy has changed in more ways than one.

He has more than 30 players at Ooltewah, and he he's not running

the Wing-T 100% of the time.

 

You are probably correct. I certainly don't claim to be a Benny Monroe expert. I just know what I have heard him say on more than one occasion in the past. And my point remains the same. I bet most teams with 50 plus players on the roster seldom, if ever, play more than 20-25 players when the outcome of a game is being decided. In class A or 2A I guess that number is closer to 14-16 players. My point is that having much beyond 30-35 players is window dressing.

[Grunt]

 

You are probably correct. I certainly don't claim to be a Benny Monroe expert. I just know what I have heard him say on more than one occasion in the past. And my point remains the same. I bet most teams with 50 plus players on the roster seldom, if ever, play more than 20-25 players when the outcome of a game is being decided. In class A or 2A I guess that number is closer to 14-16 players. My point is that having much beyond 30-35 players is window dressing.

 

Larger rosters allow you to have players playing on offense or defense only.

Smaller rosters usually mean players playing both ways. Then the larger

roster has a big advantage over the smaller. Remember the old days with

Bear Bryant @ Alabama. Had huge #'s of athletes; constantly running players

in & out; wearing down the opposition? Not everyone on the private sideline plays;

neither do they on the public sideline. The number that do is still way out of

balance.

Edited December 18, 2006 by Grunt

[supersteve17]

Larger rosters allow you to have players playing on offense or defense only.

Smaller rosters usually mean players playing both ways. Then the larger

roster has a big advantage over the smaller. Remember the old days with

Bear Bryant @ Alabama. Had huge #'s of athletes; constantly running players

in & out; wearing down the opposition? Not everyone on the private sideline plays;

neither do they on the public sideline. The number that do is still way out of

balance.

 

Your Alabama and Bear Byant analogy is somewhat flawed because there were no restrictions on scholarship limits so Byant could "stockpile" players and let them decide by "survival of the fittest" who would play. They could wear down opposition because the third string guy was as good as the first string guy. It's simply not the case in the overwhelming majority of high schools (public or private) especially in the smaller classes. On most high school sidelines, most of the kids are out there to be a part of something and to get to wear their jersey (or tie) to school on Friday. I still say most 1A-3A schools only play about 20 players or fewer when the game matters, rendering the effect of big numbers less important. 4A, 5A and the D2 schools are probably in a different situation.