Open Zone Same As Privates That Recruit

[SwamiSays]

I agree with this.

 

With reference to your earlier reply about a merit system...yes, smaller schools would be playing larger schools, because number of students is one of the advantages/disadvantages. If a smaller school can compete with larger ones then it must have offsetting advantages. That is the logic behind the multiplier...all privates have so many advantages that they should be forced to compete with schools roughly double their size.

 

I contend that that is arbitrary and discriminatory. Some privates have certain advantages over local publics, some others. Some publics have certain advantages over local privates, some others. The point is that if you are going to classify based on advantages other than student body size (which is a completely objective number) then someone has to subjectively decide which advantages are the best advantages. That decision has always favored the publics and gone against the privates. A merit system treats everyone equally...no subjective decisions about whether increased parental involvement in small privates is greater than that in rural community schools, or whether money available from wealthy donors outweighs money from the government paying for everything, etc.

 

After all, who can't reasonably argue that if anyone needs a multiplier to level the playing field it is the elite public programs...but they are public, so by the current TSSAA logic they don't have advantages. I guess they just win the flip of the coin every time they play other publics... /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

Note that I would be perfectly happy going back to a classification system based on size (objective) or going to one based on merit (objective). I am not happy with arbitrary splits because of nebulous advantages (subjective) or multipliers (subjective). The problem with subjective measurements is that eventually someone comes to power who decides that another subgroup has too many 'advantages', and mutliplies them...then the witch hunt is on.

 

I warned the open zoned and magnet schools when the multiplier came out for the small privates that they were next...just as soon as the non-open publics got beaten by them enough to decide things were unfair. Now we see that being discussed all the time. It won't stop there unless we just stop it all. I forsee all but the worst 20% of the schools in the state having some kind of mutiplier...Urban multipliers, Magnet multipliers, open zoned multipliers, community multipliers, private multipliers, etc.

 

 

I have said it before that a multiplier is unfair. Your idea of the merit system is intriguing, but how do you make it work? Are there still classifications? And then if you win a championship at your classification, would you move up to another classification based on your successs of the previous year? As an aging athlete, I used to play in a softball league that basically did just that. If you won a division, or if you won too many games, you were foreced to move up. Then of course, you got the snot kicked out of you, you had a miserable season, and then you went back down in classification. I also played on a very elite team that was in the highest division, and we would occassionally sandbag a game to set up who we would be playing somewhere down the road. I know that are not too many similarities between the two sports, but using those ideas to show what I am trying to get at, how do you keep a merit system from becoming innately unfair as well?

[JaxMan]

I have said it before that a multiplier is unfair. Your idea of the merit system is intriguing, but how do you make it work? Are there still classifications? And then if you win a championship at your classification, would you move up to another classification based on your successs of the previous year? As an aging athlete, I used to play in a softball league that basically did just that. If you won a division, or if you won too many games, you were foreced to move up. Then of course, you got the snot kicked out of you, you had a miserable season, and then you went back down in classification. I also played on a very elite team that was in the highest division, and we would occassionally sandbag a game to set up who we would be playing somewhere down the road. I know that are not too many similarities between the two sports, but using those ideas to show what I am trying to get at, how do you keep a merit system from becoming innately unfair as well?

 

I have to admit I am not sure how a merit sstem woul dwork...bu thte current systen would work fine if all school swho do not have a defined zone they never vary from had a mulitplier

[Baldcoach]

I have said it before that a multiplier is unfair. Your idea of the merit system is intriguing, but how do you make it work? Are there still classifications? And then if you win a championship at your classification, would you move up to another classification based on your successs of the previous year? As an aging athlete, I used to play in a softball league that basically did just that. If you won a division, or if you won too many games, you were foreced to move up. Then of course, you got the snot kicked out of you, you had a miserable season, and then you went back down in classification. I also played on a very elite team that was in the highest division, and we would occassionally sandbag a game to set up who we would be playing somewhere down the road. I know that are not too many similarities between the two sports, but using those ideas to show what I am trying to get at, how do you keep a merit system from becoming innately unfair as well?

 

 

There are several states that run merit systems of different sorts. Silverpie had a very elaborate system set up that he posted on another thread one time.

 

I'm for simplicity...If your school is best in region for 2 years running OR has the most playoff wins over a 2 year period you move up. The worst team in the region for the 2 years moves down. Reclassification occurs every 2 years. No school is allowed to move down more than 2 divisions (5a can only go down to 3a, no matter how bad) but a team can continue to move up to the top. Within 6 or 8 years most schools would be hanging about where they are competitive and the 5a championship would really mean something...no more wondering if Riverdale is better than Maryville or Fulton or Alcoa.

 

There would certainly be those who found ways to 'play the system', but that would require throwing games one year in the hopes of getting to an advantageous position in the future. I find it hard to believe anyone would intentionally lose a game to set up a better spot for the next year. If so, they would cheat at any system. I'm thinking that the sheer number of teams playing insures that the vast majority keep the system honest...bad teams lose, good teams win. It is very hard to change those two facts unilaterally in any significant way.

[SwamiSays]

There are several states that run merit systems of different sorts. Silverpie had a very elaborate system set up that he posted on another thread one time.

 

I'm for simplicity...If your school is best in region for 2 years running OR has the most playoff wins over a 2 year period you move up. The worst team in the region for the 2 years moves down. Reclassification occurs every 2 years. No school is allowed to move down more than 2 divisions (5a can only go down to 3a, no matter how bad) but a team can continue to move up to the top. Within 6 or 8 years most schools would be hanging about where they are competitive and the 5a championship would really mean something...no more wondering if Riverdale is better than Maryville or Fulton or Alcoa.

 

There would certainly be those who found ways to 'play the system', but that would require throwing games one year in the hopes of getting to an advantageous position in the future. I find it hard to believe anyone would intentionally lose a game to set up a better spot for the next year. If so, they would cheat at any system. I'm thinking that the sheer number of teams playing insures that the vast majority keep the system honest...bad teams lose, good teams win. It is very hard to change those two facts unilaterally in any significant way.

 

 

Coach, have you or anyone else ever presented the merit system to TSSAA? What was the response?

[DonCChatt]

Coach, have you or anyone else ever presented the merit system to TSSAA? What was the response?

 

 

Does any state use a merit system for classifications? Also, would each school move all their sports up or down, or will each sport move independently? If somebody stinks at football, but is great in basketball, etc.

[Antwan]

Does any state use a merit system for classifications? Also, would each school move all their sports up or down, or will each sport move independently? If somebody stinks at football, but is great in basketball, etc.

 

 

I think the proposal is for football only.

 

I like some things about it...but I don't like some things either. I'm really not for a merit system as of now. I would really have to see the whole proposal to be sure of that. I think it's a moot point anyway. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[JaxMan]

I think TSSAA will do little to change the system soon...like a merit system or not and I am really not sure how I feel at this point...I don't see it happening anytime soon

[12yr.oldchamps]

The merit system would be a windfall for the sandbagging coaches that would pop up all over the state.

[JaxMan]

The merit system would be a windfall for the sandbagging coaches that would pop up all over the state.

 

 

I think it should be looked at real hard before any changes are made

[Bighurt]

I think the proposal is for football only.

 

I like some things about it...but I don't like some things either. I'm really not for a merit system as of now. I would really have to see the whole proposal to be sure of that. I think it's a moot point anyway. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

I agree. A merit system won't be passed any time in the near future. So, this discussion is just fodder for debate.

 

Here is a link that gives background and history of the system of promotion and relegation as used by several leagues in different sports - Promotion and relegation

[SwamiSays]

I agree. A merit system won't be passed any time in the near future. So, this discussion is just fodder for debate.

 

Here is a link that gives background and history of the system of promotion and relegation as used by several leagues in different sports - Promotion and relegation

 

 

 

I too believe that it is way off in the horizon, but does anyone know if it has ever been brought up or looked at by TSSAA?

[JaxMan]

I don't know of it ever having been