The RAT Plan

[old24eagle]

and you can't sit there and tell me no publics recruit...people cheat...in all types of schools

 

I naver have said that NO public schools recruit , I just said that when baldyboy said that there was no way under the sun that ANY private school would recruit simply because it's illegal that he was wrong. I am sure some public schools do a little recruiting , I am also sure that some private schools do as well.

[Baldcoach]

I naver have said that NO public schools recruit , I just said that when baldyboy said that there was no way under the sun that ANY private school would recruit simply because it's illegal that he was wrong. I am sure some public schools do a little recruiting , I am also sure that some private schools do as well.

 

 

I suggest you check my post. I never said that NO privates recruit. I was responding to the implication that they ALL do. I said "privates don't recruit". YOU are the one who jumped all over the place screaming that I was wrong in the head for claiming no privates recruit. In fact, in a later post I asked if there is some recruiting going on in both publics and privates how is it an advantage for privates...implying that I certainly know that there are some dishonest people on both sides. My question is still valid...if both sides have some dishonest people, how can anyone justify what has been/is being done to all the privates based on a few who engage in dishonest behavior?

[Gov]

Baldcoach,

Once again there is no simularity between privates and publics. I was a little suprised that you would think that I was riding a high and mighty horse. Trust me we in the public arena ride shetland ponies. I find it ironic that your small christian school would not invest more in the poor. I believe Jesus was one of the biggest advocates of the poor, sick, and disadvantaged. But I will regress to the task at hand, trying to convince you of the differences. I was once like you oh bald one, teaching at a plush small private christian school. I was wondering how many cdc students does your school have, what is the poverty rate of such school, how many students are a ward of the state, how many students have to wake up at 5:00 in the morning to catch a bus on a cold winter morning, how many of your students go home after school to an empty house, how many of your students only hot meal will be at your school. These are just a few things that may be different at a public school vs a private school, at least these are some that I have found out here on the front lines of free public education. I would like to advocate that you may find a more fulfilling ministry out here with those less fortunate. I know that jesus did.

[Baldcoach]

Baldcoach,

Once again there is no simularity between privates and publics. I was a little suprised that you would think that I was riding a high and mighty horse. Trust me we in the public arena ride shetland ponies. I find it ironic that your small christian school would not invest more in the poor. I believe Jesus was one of the biggest advocates of the poor, sick, and disadvantaged. But I will regress to the task at hand, trying to convince you of the differences. I was once like you oh bald one, teaching at a plush small private christian school. I was wondering how many cdc students does your school have, what is the poverty rate of such school, how many students are a ward of the state, how many students have to wake up at 5:00 in the morning to catch a bus on a cold winter morning, how many of your students go home after school to an empty house, how many of your students only hot meal will be at your school. These are just a few things that may be different at a public school vs a private school, at least these are some that I have found out here on the front lines of free public education. I would like to advocate that you may find a more fulfilling ministry out here with those less fortunate. I know that jesus did.

 

 

Gov,

 

Your judgemental tone and lack of any real understanding of private schools more than surprises me. Let me take your initial pot shot first...

 

We DO invest in the poor. But we HAVE to charge tuition to keep the doors open. A large percentage of our student body has gone on school sponsored benevolence trips. We just finished a huge food drive for needy families for the Holidays. Our kids are required to have service hours to remain in school. At least 5 service clubs are on campus and all have major projects that they undertake in addition to the main school projects. BUT private schools have to pay for everything. We are not government sponsored so the lights, water, taxes, upkeep, cleaning, equipment, technology, salaries, buildings, grounds, etc. are all paid for by our tuition. I know this is hard for you to understand, but money doesn't just appear out of thin air. If we could charge 0 we would...but we can't because the money has to come from somewhere. Your money does too...in fact you charge more than us, you just charge all taxpayers including those of us in privates. Speaking of where your operating costs come from, have you considered what that means??

 

It means that IN ADDITION...we private school parents and teachers all take care of your kids too...since we all help support your programs with our taxes. And I am a big advocate of that. So the whole "yours" vs "ours" mentality is simply your prejudicial attitudes against private schools showing out.

 

So when you ask how many of this or that student do we have my answer is all of them, since it is our money as much as yours that lets them go to school.

 

Now, if you can cut the rhetoric and you want to discuss real differences in public vs private schools in athletics, make a list and we'll discuss the points. But the whole moral superiority thing has gotta go...

 

p.s. I find this "I find it ironic that your small christian school would not invest more in the poor. I believe Jesus was one of the biggest advocates of the poor, sick, and disadvantaged" and this "I would like to advocate that you may find a more fulfilling ministry out here with those less fortunate. I know that jesus did." particularly offensive. Since you know nothing about me personally and it is obvious despite your claims to the contrary that you haven't a clue about Christian education I'm not sure where you get the gall to make a statement like that. Further, indicating that somehow because I teach in a private school I am less of a Christian than you or not following Jesus is beyond the pale, and says a lot about the hate filled way you think. I'm sorry if you are angry about some event or people that you feel are associated with small private schools, but I'm pretty sure whatever happened didn't involve me or most of the other million or so private school students, parents, employees, or friends in Tennessee.

 

pps Just saying there are 'no similarities' doesn't make it so. I can't believe anyone would even make that statement lol.

[Gov]

Baldcoach,

I am glad that I have hit a nerve, this means that I am making progress. I always say to my wife what hurts the most is the truth. Its not easy facing the truth but we learn more about ourselves when we do. I didn't mean to be offensive in my post, because I actually respect you more than most on the boards because you are a lot smarter than me and the average poster. However in this case I happen to think you are misled in your opinion. I am not as smart as you so I will talk in laymen terms so I can better explain my points and hopefully change your opinion on public vs private and realize that the students that you teach are not the same as the students that I teach. Let's examine the apple and the lemon. We can say they are the same because they both grow on trees, they both are friut, so because of this, they must taste the same. We can even take it further we can examine the Green Golden delicious apple with the Granny Smith apple. Yes they are both apples, both grow on trees, they are both friuts, they both are green, they even look the same. Because of this, they both must taste the same. As you can see we sometimes are misled by what we see and hear, but when we taste our eyes are opened. Yes the private school and the public school are both schools, but they are not the same and to try to say they are, is offensive to those of us who have tasted them both. You see, there is also a difference in giving to the poor (as my school also collects food for the needy, does community service, as well as the other things you have mentioned) and investing in the poor. As the old proverb said, give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish he will eat for a lifetime. We in public education invest in those less fortunate. I was at a fine christian school and we collected cans for the needy too just like we do here at the school I am at now. I have been apart of both and it is different. The student at the fine christian school took five cans from his cabinet, But the student here only brought one can. It may look like the the student here gave less but when you look at the cabinet you see that one cabinet from the student who gave five is still full, but the student who brought one is empty. Who really gave more? You may think your students are the same and you can even rationalize the fact that by paying your taxes you are investing in those less fortunate but I know that its not the same. I know that not all students that apply at your school get in so it is selective whether it is because there is not enough room or for other reasons, it is selective. That is the hard cold truth. You are correct I do not now you personally but I know who you are and know that you are a fine educator. I am not questioning your ministry but I will argue that it would be much different if you were at a public school.

[old24eagle]

He was using others' arguments...

 

Privates don't recruit...it is illegal. Some privates give aid. They are already in DII. Ignorance isn't bliss.

 

Hey baldy I did what you asked and "checked your post" and there it was plain and simple "privates don't recruit". Know that we have established that you did in fact say that , Lets put it this way , and it somewhat goes along with what GOV said. Privates may not have all of the kids they want in their school , BUT they definately don't have any of the kids they DON"T want. Private schools ballplayers don't have to work after school and on the weekends (you think that doesn't take away from practice time and academics) , neither do all kids at public schools but there are more that do. Like I have said earlier "Life isn't fair" , and making sports fair or level isn't what I personally believe in, BUT if it's supposed to be fair or level then small publics should not have to compete against privates of any size. The advantages are there and obvious to all, some people just want to deny it and shout Alcoa and Maryville win every year and their public.

[Baldcoach]

Hey baldy I did what you asked and "checked your post" and there it was plain and simple "privates don't recruit". Know that we have established that you did in fact say that , Lets put it this way , and it somewhat goes along with what GOV said. Privates may not have all of the kids they want in their school , BUT they definately don't have any of the kids they DON"T want. Private schools ballplayers don't have to work after school and on the weekends (you think that doesn't take away from practice time and academics) , neither do all kids at public schools but there are more that do. Like I have said earlier "Life isn't fair" , and making sports fair or level isn't what I personally believe in, BUT if it's supposed to be fair or level then small publics should not have to compete against privates of any size. The advantages are there and obvious to all, some people just want to deny it and shout Alcoa and Maryville win every year and their public.

 

 

And this shows that you really don't know much about the DI privates. I still think you believe that all privates are the same, but they are not. Our kids are not nearly as wealthy on average as the big preps. The VAST majority of our upperclassmen work...after school and on weekends. Certainly privates have some advantages...but so do publics. If the small privates had such obvious and huge advantages then they should be winning champoinships left and right...

 

Let me ask you this, how did the DI privates do this year vs the DI publics? Last year? The year before? I believe it is 1 championship and a bunch of killings. I guess those advantages aren't so big...at least in the real world.

 

p.s. I think I explained that I was answering a post that claimed that ALL privates recruited. Note that I never said ALL, just that privates don't recruit. It was a reply to the ALL of them do it charge. Context is everything...

[Baldcoach]

Baldcoach,

I am glad that I have hit a nerve, this means that I am making progress. I always say to my wife what hurts the most is the truth. Its not easy facing the truth but we learn more about ourselves when we do. I didn't mean to be offensive in my post, because I actually respect you more than most on the boards because you are a lot smarter than me and the average poster. However in this case I happen to think you are misled in your opinion. I am not as smart as you so I will talk in laymen terms so I can better explain my points and hopefully change your opinion on public vs private and realize that the students that you teach are not the same as the students that I teach. Let's examine the apple and the lemon. We can say they are the same because they both grow on trees, they both are friut, so because of this, they must taste the same. We can even take it further we can examine the Green Golden delicious apple with the Granny Smith apple. Yes they are both apples, both grow on trees, they are both friuts, they both are green, they even look the same. Because of this, they both must taste the same. As you can see we sometimes are misled by what we see and hear, but when we taste our eyes are opened. Yes the private school and the public school are both schools, but they are not the same and to try to say they are, is offensive to those of us who have tasted them both. You see, there is also a difference in giving to the poor (as my school also collects food for the needy, does community service, as well as the other things you have mentioned) and investing in the poor. As the old proverb said, give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish he will eat for a lifetime. We in public education invest in those less fortunate. I was at a fine christian school and we collected cans for the needy too just like we do here at the school I am at now. I have been apart of both and it is different. The student at the fine christian school took five cans from his cabinet, But the student here only brought one can. It may look like the the student here gave less but when you look at the cabinet you see that one cabinet from the student who gave five is still full, but the student who brought one is empty. Who really gave more? You may think your students are the same and you can even rationalize the fact that by paying your taxes you are investing in those less fortunate but I know that its not the same. I know that not all students that apply at your school get in so it is selective whether it is because there is not enough room or for other reasons, it is selective. That is the hard cold truth. You are correct I do not now you personally but I know who you are and know that you are a fine educator. I am not questioning your ministry but I will argue that it would be much different if you were at a public school.

 

 

What school did you teach in?

 

I'm not arguing that there aren't differences in small publics and small privates. I am arguing that any differences that give athletic advantages are not all with the privates. And I am arguing that there are as many similarities in the rural publics and the small privates (not the eilte preps) as there are differences. Your analogy of the apples is a good one. They are different, but is one better than the other? And are all Red Delicious apples equal, or do the ones from Washington differ slightly from California and New York apples? Certainly RDs are good to eat, but not so good in pies, where you need a tart apple.

Of course there are differences. Just like there are differences between the privates themselves, or the publics themselves. What those who dislike privates (and your tone certainly indicates that you are in that camp, regardless of background) want to claim is that all privates are identical, and therefore have the same advantages. And that all publics are the same, and therefore have the same disadvantages. By doing so they can hold the most disadvantaged public schools up to the most advantaged private schools and say "see, there is a huge gap". But that isn't accurate at all. In fact, if we hold the best small privates up to the best small publics in Football, the small publics win hands down.

In fact, based on the performance of the best vs best I think the publics need a multiplier and we should take the current one off of the privates. I don't think any private could have beaten South Pitt this year, and I know they couldn't have stayed on the field with Alcoa.

 

So how can those schools be at such a terrible disadvantage?

[Gov]

Baldcoach,

Let me make this clear, I am for both private and public education. I believe that there is a place for both. I am however an advocate for public education. I do not believe in vouchers. Ex. just because i do not want to go to the national parks,(smokey mountains, yellowstone,etc) I don't get a voucher to disney world because i don't take advantage of national, state, and local parks. But I believe I have a right to choose. I was at a very good christian school in nashville, They have won many state championships in football. As for as athletics, I am like you, I don't believe you can level the playing field. The bottem line is those programs that are successful have some advantage over other programs. It doesn't matter if they are public, private or open zoned, when you have a good program (not just a good team every so often) it becomes a magnet for good players. Every sport has these these schools ex. Maryville, MBA, Oakridge, South Pitt in football; Shelbyville in girls basketball; Soddy Daisy, Ezell Harding girls softball; Bradley, Clarksville, Baylor, wrestling. I could go on but you get the picture. Once you build it they will come. All the above schools have prospered because of their good programs and the attraction it provides. The multiplier I feel has somewhat been affective, however it isn't going to make the good programs bad and the bad programs good. Its like I always say you can't manipulate a state championship you have to earn it. You can't wish away the competition.

[Baldcoach]

Baldcoach,

Let me make this clear, I am for both private and public education. I believe that there is a place for both. I am however an advocate for public education. I do not believe in vouchers. Ex. just because i do not want to go to the national parks,(smokey mountains, yellowstone,etc) I don't get a voucher to disney world because i don't take advantage of national, state, and local parks. But I believe I have a right to choose. I was at a very good christian school in nashville, They have won many state championships in football. As for as athletics, I am like you, I don't believe you can level the playing field. The bottem line is those programs that are successful have some advantage over other programs. It doesn't matter if they are public, private or open zoned, when you have a good program (not just a good team every so often) it becomes a magnet for good players. Every sport has these these schools ex. Maryville, MBA, Oakridge, South Pitt in football; Shelbyville in girls basketball; Soddy Daisy, Ezell Harding girls softball; Bradley, Clarksville, Baylor, wrestling. I could go on but you get the picture. Once you build it they will come. All the above schools have prospered because of their good programs and the attraction it provides. The multiplier I feel has somewhat been affective, however it isn't going to make the good programs bad and the bad programs good. Its like I always say you can't manipulate a state championship you have to earn it. You can't wish away the competition.

 

 

Ahh, see, and after our rocky start I am thinking I can recruit you into the merit system camp. I agree that the only real measure of 'advantage' is performance since it is practically impossible to quantify everything that impacts a program exept with the final product...do they win a lot? A merit system takes all advantages and disadvantages of every school into account to level things out. But it won't happen because currently the TSSAA is dominated by public school ADs, and they will NEVER vote for anything that might impact them. So they will keep piling it on the privates while the best public programs dominate everyone.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Back to the RAT plan. USJ`s closest region/district opponent would be an hour away.

[Antwan]

Back to the RAT plan. USJ`s closest region/district opponent would be an hour away.

 

 

You are correct...my friend. Boyd would have the same problem. I guess the only way to counter that would be to have a lot of local non-region games. Of course...that would be dependent on the number of region games.