Some thoughts on the Topic

[CoachT]

Please forgive a little rambling here:

 

I like and admire public schools and private schools. I respect high school football players and coaches because I know how much time, effort, and emotions go into preparing for and playing that sport. It doesn't matter, in that respect, whether you are rich, poor, rural, urban, big, or small.

 

It is probably dawning on some of you who have been involved in this discussion that, and I hope I'm wrong, there is no easy solution to this. I can give you 50 common sense, intelligent reasons that things should stay exactly like they are, and have you agree to all 50 of them, and then I can ask "Do you agree then that things should stay the way they are?" and the answer will be a resounding NO.

 

In coaching golf I have been fortunate enough to take teams to the state tourney on three occasions, never finishing higher than third, but I'll tell you something- the year we finished third the private schools (CBHS, MUS, Baylor, Father Ryan, BGA) weren't there. I want them there because if we ever win it all I want it to be against the best. However, football is not golf. In golf it's 5 against 5.

 

I played in games against BGA twice in high school, didn't worry about the fact that they were from all over the south, and they kicked us 48-0 one year and we beat them the next, 21-7. But that was in the 60s and I think they are over.

 

I coached against Brentwood Academy twice in football, got kicked both times, but felt like we got something out of the game as a team. I remember one of their coaches telling me that, at that time, they had 101 boys involved in their football program and there were only 110 in the entire school, 9-12. Then why didn't I mind playing them? Because losing to them did not affect the playoffs. They weren't in our region. In fact, they weren't even in our classification. If they had of been I would have looked at it in an entirely different light.

 

All I know at this point is that if I was coaching football under the current system I hope I would do like some coaches and schedule the best teams I can, public or private, and take on all comers. I hope I would never let my players see/hear me blame the system if we come up short.

 

Then, when the different votes are taken from time-to-time on this issue, I would express how I feel because I know how much time, effort, and emotions go into preparing for and playing high school football. That is the time to appeal for the changes I believe in. Then, whatever happens, I hope I would continue scheduling and playing the best teams I can.

[VolunteerGeneral]

CoachT...I posted a possible solution on the other board. It didn`t have specifics, but was a general idea. I asked for feedback and couldn`t get any of the staunch supporters of a split to reply. I`ll post it again and maybe some of these folks won`t be so close minded.

 

Why don`t we try this. Let`s keep things the way they are. Face it, the best way to divide the schools into classes is by school size. It may not be perfect, but it is the best way. Now if you want to fine tune that system then let`s add a "merit" system. I`m going to use arbitrary numbers because I don`t know the current breakdown of how they split the classes up, but let`s say a team wins a state championship...I`ll use Ezell Harding as an example...why not add say 50 students to their enrollment count. That may or may not bump them up to a 2AA school, but it would get them closer. Then take the state runner up and add 25 and maybe even the semi finalists and add 15 to their student count. (Again I want to emphasize that these are arbitrary numbers. Other numbers will probably work better.) If a school has continued success in any class, then they would be bumped up. Gradually you would get a more competitive eveness. Of course there will be weaker teams who are in a class over their ability that would move down as well. That would allow the Trinity Christians and such to remain in 1A where they certainly belong, while forcing the more competitive schools to move up based on how strong they are.

Now again...I would invite anyone to tell me why this would or would not work. It seems like the "Great Compromise".

[rollredroll]

Great, objective post, coacht. I could comment on a lot of points on your post, but there is not really much more I could add - you said it all well. You asked for volunteer moderators on another thread. Why bother - you're probably the best one out there!

 

The part of your post that speaks volumes to me was the section that involved BGA. One year, they were better than your team, and the next year, your team was better. Superiority can be fleeting/cyclical for any program - public or private - and you just have to do your best with you have, and above all, be humble, win or lose.

[Indian]

I responded but it probably was lost in the run of back-n-forth stuff..I dont think it would be a good idea. For some teams you'd have to have several state titles to move them up a class, and even if they can dominate 1A or 2A, moving up to 3A may be too much because of depth (or 3A to 4A, etc). Anyway, I don't think anyone wants a South Pittsburg moved up to 2A or Alcoa to 3A, Maryville to 5A, which is what this could eventually do, they just want to play with similar schools which don't have an advantage (for whatever reason, the numbers and results prove there is an advantage, look at the titles won in 1A and Class A this year by private schools, the clear minority in their division). A split would work since there would be no Trinity or even CPA vs McCallie or MBA-all the teams would play in region competition and the playoffs against teams with similar enrollment. 40 teams could have 2 or more likely 3 classes, with relatively little travel problems (especially compared to the current Division II).

[VolunteerGeneral]

If you truly think that some private schools have an advantage, then this would eventually move them up to where they play more competitive teams.

 

What would be so bad about South Pittsburg having to move up if they are dominating 1A? I hear so many of my fellow public school supporters ask why are private schools afraid of moving up in class to play better teams. What would be the difference if it was a public school? I always hear how noble it was of Trousdale to move up. What would happen if there was a split and Trousdale moved back down and started winning the state every year? Don`t you think people would get sick of that after awhile?

[Indian]

They shouldn't have to move up when there's just around 2,000 people in their town and some 250 in their school. CPA shouldn't have to move up, neither should Trinity, RBS or any other 1A school.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Privates shouldn`t have to split off either. There should be a way for all of them to compete as one.

[Indian]

The bottom line, the numbers and results prove things aren't equal in 1A and Class A. Football, basketball, baseball and softball were all won by the group of schools which was the clear minority. Since things aren't equal, there should be a change. You don't have 11 players go out there against 10, even when there are some cases where the 10 player group could beat, maybe even whip the 11 player group. On the average, it's not going to happen. If it takes an adjustment, and in this case a split, so be it.

[Edited by Indian on 6/25/02 11:05P]

[VolunteerGeneral]

Indian..why does it have to be a split? Would you not be in favor of a system that would allow everyone to compete together, if it could be arranged?

 

What just kills me is the mondset of some people on here including public coaches who wouldn`t accept anything but a split. That is being prejudice and bigoted IMO.

[Indian]

Without a split, either things remain the same or teams would be moving up based on success. Unless it's a totally unique situation such as Brentwood Academy playing in 5A (and winning the state with 350 students vs 2,500 student Riverdale), teams should always have the option of playing teams from schools with similar populations and shouldn't be forced. Say South Pittsburg jumped into 2A last year, not necessarily for competition but for more 'money games' with valley rivals. Then their coach moves on, which nearly happened, and the team drops in quality. Or their 1A sized teams suffers an unlucky streak of injuries, or there's a mass dismissal for discipline reasons, etc. Sure this could happen in 1A too, but being in 2A (or whatever class for whichever team) after being forced up and having something like one of those scenarios take place could set a program back years.

[CoachT]

VG- look at the Fan Poll on this site and you'll see where a lot of the animosity comes from. (I know, its just a poll, but it points out some things).

 

What you will see is that of the 58 or so teams in Class A, only 16 of which are private, 3 of the top 6 teams (50%) are private, 6 of the top 11. Some fans, the public-school supporters, will see that as pointing out that something is not equal. I'll let ya'll debate what that might be.

[Indian]

It's not just the fan poll, one of the private school supporters/anti-split guys threw out some stats from Earl Nall claiming how there was a somewhat equal number of private and public teams at a certain high level, don't remember exactly the stat, but he forgot there's 42 public schools in 1A and 16 private schools. For any kind of comparison to show things are equal, it should show there clearly is a much higher number of quality public school teams in the class than private schools, but none can show that. The Nall stat I remember most was 12 of the 16 private schools were in the top 28, meaning 75 percent of them were at least the average level. The average private school had a much better rating than the average public school, even with a couple private school teams way down the list. The numbers are pretty clear, and the results (all the state titles this past school year in different sports) should make things even easier to see.