Some thoughts on the Topic

[VolunteerGeneral]

pujo..how old are you?

[Guest Hixstar]

If you want to know how unfair this "if they say that the school does not give athletic scholarships, then the school can play in public league" , just look at Class-A softball at State level. My team has made four states and we just try to be the last public school beat out by Ezell, Davidson, or Goodpasture.

We do not have the avalibility of Club-K to make our athletes for us. TSSAA has to do something to create a fair playing field for all that qualify for State.

[pujo]

I am 44. By the way I enjoyed your last post. I wish you could understand Cloudland football. If you did, you would be very impressed. We breath football in this little town. I do mean little, not even one single stop light in our whole school zone. We have 5 schools in carter county and we are by far the smallest with the least amount of talent to choose from. Actually we should never win a single game. The reason we do win is because we get a very high percent of our boys to play and we have Vince lombardi as a coach. At the present time we do have some good talent, and for the most part, we have very hard working guys, although pure talent is a rare commodity. We win with hard work and sweat. A chance at a state title is extremely rare and we all sincerely believe we got robbed by a team that should be in a different class. They are completely different. I'm not sure we could have beat the best public school, although we would have stood a better chance. I really believe we will be down there again this year and we may just pull this one out. I think we learned alot last year. I would love for you to come watch one of our games, and talk with me, you would leave with a ton of respect for our team. We are the classic example of a small rural 1a school.

[BIGDOG31]

The selective entrance process at private schools is the difference maker. Public schools are required to take every student. This one item makes public and private schools inherently different. It was mentioned that many kids in public schools could be private school students if their parents wanted to make the sacrifice. Therein lies another major difference. A very large number of private school parents are making the sacrifice and are very involved in supporting their student. While many public school parents are also supportive, the percentage would have to be significantly lower. If a private school parent stops with the support and commitment ($), and the student gets booted, guess where they go to school, you got it, the public school. Lets face it, public and private schools are vastly different in the number of high average to superior students who walk in the door. I don't care about your winning percentages or statistics. I guess it could be said that 100% of the private schools were ranked in the top 100% of class A schools and that 100% of public schools were in the top 100% of class A schools, etc. If you don't believe that there is a differnce you are wearing blinders.As to recruitment, I believe that most recruiting takes place by the private school parents themselves and not the school, they simply want the best to go to school with their kids. As to scholarships, there are students in the private schools playing in the "public" division who are receiving scholarships. A list of outside donors has even been published in newspapers. However, the TSSAA does not consider it financial aid for some reason. Finally, I believe that a separate PLAYOFF system for public and private schools is the only fair answer. I believe that 4 public and 2 private divisions in all sports is the place where the discussion should begin. I'm not sure if 4 and 2 is the final answer but I do believe that whatever system is used, it should be the same for all sports.

[scout]

BIGDOG,

I don't oppose a separate playoff system. But you are wrong about private school scholarships for Div 1 schools. They are not allowed by the TSSAA. Private schools are very strict about that. I have given several scholrships to students at private schools but they then become ineligable and barred from playing sports at the school.

[scout]

Pujo,

Cloudland sounds like a Norman Rockwell painting. I know teams that have made the trip to the mountian in late fall. Don't know any who had a good experience on the field. You all kicked their butts. But they all loved the town and the great football tradition you have there.

 

As I have said in several post, wish you guys could come to Middle TN more during the season. And I'd loved to come there. Good luck this season. Keep teaching those kids hard work. Hope to see you guys back in the Boro this year although my prediction is a S. Pitt. Vs Collinwood BCBS Bowl.

[Edited by scout on 6/27/02 8:49A]

[BIGDOG31]

The point on scholarships was that TSSAA says that any school which has students on financial aid must play in the "Private" division. My point was that there are schools which have students on scholarship that are competing in the "public" division. I said the SCHOOL is playing, even though they have students receiving assistance.

[pujo]

Thanks for nice post.although our perdictions are a little different.I believe we can beat South Pittsburg if our team stays healthy.Don't get me wrong.I don't expect it to be easy by know means.We beat them pretty bad on the scoreboard last year.They were much tougher than the scoreboard showed.They play the exact kind of football we play.Collinwood on the other hand has a much tougher road,whoever comes out of region five will be the team to beat.I don't know anything about Collinwood other than they have a real good quarterback and reciever and they must be a hard working bunch.I wish them luck.We have played most of the real good teams in 1a over the years such as trousdale,gordansville,cpa,south pittsburg,onida, greenback and now ezell harding.All of the games were really close except the last one.Maybe we will meet collinwood this year and I believe it would be a great game.Both teams deserve a a state title and we both stand a good chance this year.

[Indian]

Scout made a good point-students receiving financial aid aren't eligible to play in Division I. In Division II, they would be, anyone in the whole school wanting to put on a helmet or pick up a bat could do so. Isn't this fact alone reason enough for a split?

[southernpride]

Vol Gen it is too bad you can't sit down and have a conversation with the coach at Trousdale County. He will tell you what he thinks about private schools if it is "off the record." USJ may have been beaten in a clinic bowl or two but as soon as Trousdale left for AA then volunteered to move up to AAA, the table turned forever! No other public school could or can conistsently compete with the metro privates! Maybe once in a decade, a public school will rise to win the bowl, but privates can now dominate because of the open zones! We must find a way to eliminate this advantage or otherwise privates will continue to dominate throughout this decade. Things have changed since Trousdale left and no one has yet to really contest them for the title. The folks at Collinwood may have the best chance this year, but I doubt they will get to the semi-finals because they will play CPA or Ezell during the quarterfinals game. Since you admit you have only been in this debate for less than a year, let me tell you it has been going on since BA won the 5A title so many years ago with a team that should have been competiting in 1A (by the numbers). It was obvious something was wrong with our system! The TSSAA has worked hard to fix the problem but I don't know of any public school football coach who will say he likes the way it is now and is in favor of keeping things the way they are. There may be one out there but I have yet to find one! In fact, I have only heard a few private school supporters who don't want to see things changed one way or another. Some want to merge everyone back together with a multiplier, others want a total split, but everyone wants some form of change in our current system. I have been very outspoken about this matter because I didn't feel you private school guys really understood how BIG this thing has become, but I think you are getting the message. I do think things are going to change in 2005, and to copy another members words, "We can either be a part of the solution or not."

[silverpie]

Here's why I think a multiplier is the best route to that solution:

(1) It recognizes that, on the one hand, kids are kids, and on the other, there are advantages held by the private schools.

(2) It can be used in every sport, not just football (remember, this is not the football board now, so every sport is relevant)--just take the numbers after applying the multiplier, and classify as you do now.

(3) It doesn't punish the tiny private schools (Trinity Christian is kind of the poster child here, with only the other two local privates anywhere near it) by forcing them to play schools much bigger than they are (private or public) or to travel huge distances where suitable opponents are available much closer.

 

I would happily vote for the GHSA's solution. Use a 1.5 multiplier; apply the same transfer rules to private and public, with private schools having their county as a zone (I would make one exception there, allowing SBEC both Shelby and DeSoto counties); but I would retain two and/or three classes in the non-football sports, adding a second class to the wrestling duals and going to a single class for singles/doubles tennis.

[silverpie]

(4) It would restore the somewhat weakened prestige of the term "State Champion." As CoachT himself said, it wouldn't seem right for Lawrence County to win the state golf meet without having to go through Baylor. And by the same token, a basketball state title at my old school, Baylor, that didn't go through Brainerd woudn't have seemed right back when I was there (late 1980's). To misquote one of the legends of rasslin', "To be the best, ya gotta beat the best."