No privates in 1A?

[BDURHAM]

I posted this in the football forum, and have moved my question to this forum.

 

OnlineLC:

 

Do you think CPA should move up to 2A, 3A, 4A or 5A? And do you think MBA would play in 1A if they could play in Division 1?

 

I would suggest that all privates, with a few exceptions, move out of 1A. One reason is that I would think it would be more competitive for schools such as CPA...on a week-to-week basis. Another reason is that I think the small rural schools have a disadvantage against CPA.

 

What do you think? And I have also posted this topic in the private-public debate forum. This is not a public-private debate, but essentially a one school classification question.

[OnlineLC]

Stan Trott,

 

Good question and I have to admit that I would not be opposed to moving into 2A or 3A, however for CPA to consider that I'm sure they would want FRA, DCA, USJ and Ezell to make the same choice. It would be tough some years but overall all of these teams could be competitive in these classifications.

 

I'm not part of the CPA Football decision criteria so my opinion does not count. I do need to stress that we do not enjoy the games when we play a small rural Tennessee school who can barely field a squad. However we do enjoy the Collinwoods etc. One perspective as a CPA fan, it was Trousdale County giving us an annual trip to the woodshed that made us improve.

 

As for the Lighthouse's, CA's etc they all struggle in 1A so maybe they should move to Div II, A.

 

 

 

Posted by StanTrott:

I posted this in the football forum, and have moved my question to this forum.

 

OnlineLC:

 

Do you think CPA should move up to 2A, 3A, 4A or 5A? And do you think MBA would play in 1A if they could play in Division 1?

 

I would suggest that all privates, with a few exceptions, move out of 1A. One reason is that I would think it would be more competitive for schools such as CPA...on a week-to-week basis. Another reason is that I think the small rural schools have a disadvantage against CPA.

 

What do you think? And I have also posted this topic in the private-public debate forum. This is not a public-private debate, but essentially a one school classification question.

[Edited by OnlineLC on 8-26-02 10:57A]

 

[Chakra20]

what would happen is you shift the complaining from 1a to 2a, because the private schools would dominate 2a more than they do know. It not that all of them are good all the time its at least one of them would be really good every year.

[OnlineLC]

I agree that the complaining would shift over to 2A, it would also be big if we moved to 3A.

 

Posted by Chakra20:

what would happen is you shift the complaining from 1a to 2a, because the private schools would dominate 2a more than they do know. It not that all of them are good all the time its at least one of them would be really good every year.

[BDURHAM]

Online LC:

 

I agree 100% about the other privates you mentioned moving as well. Can you respond to the MBA question, and why MBA (was it Coach Bowers?) would play up to the highest classification? CPA probaby has not reached the MBA's level yet, but I think the same factors are part of the decision-making.

 

Having written these comments, I must be honest and say that I have conflicting emotions on the issue. It is exciting to see the intensity that exists when a private school such as CPA plays a Collinwood or Wayne County. Having attended a private school, the public-private games make the competition more interesting -- when it is fair.

 

Some small rural schools cannot compete well on any level, and when they do improve, it is devasting when they lose to a private school. It also causes problems when a private school runs the score up on a public school.

 

As far as a good public school losing to private school, I have no problem with the contest or outcome -- but I think in 1A it makes a difference. Of course, if it makes a difference in 1A, it ideally makes a difference in all classifications.

 

I think both private and public coaches and administrators have to sit in a room together and debate the issue. One party cannot make the decision without the other party's full participation.

[ELA]

Posted by StanTrott:

Online LC:

 

I agree 100% about the other privates you mentioned moving as well. Can you respond to the MBA question, and why MBA (was it Coach Bowers?) would play up to the highest classification? CPA probaby has not reached the MBA's level yet, but I think the same factors are part of the decision-making.

 

Having written these comments, I must be honest and say that I have conflicting emotions on the issue. It is exciting to see the intensity that exists when a private school such as CPA plays a Collinwood or Wayne County. Having attended a private school, the public-private games make the competition more interesting -- when it is fair.

 

Some small rural schools cannot compete well on any level, and when they do improve, it is devasting when they lose to a private school. It also causes problems when a private school runs the score up on a public school.

 

As far as a good public school losing to private school, I have no problem with the contest or outcome -- but I think in 1A it makes a difference. Of course, if it makes a difference in 1A, it ideally makes a difference in all classifications.

 

I think both private and public coaches and administrators have to sit in a room together and debate the issue. One party cannot make the decision without the other party's full participation.

 

Here is the interesting part of the debate. If a CPA can compete at the 2A or 3A level and still dominate (as many agree), then why would they remain in the smallest classification? I have always said that most of the private schools would be better suited for AA ball and should play at that level with Goodpasture and D.L.! The only problem with that is you would then see more AA teams moving up to AAA to avoid playing them. I also think that schools like N. Christian and Lighthouse can only compete at the 1A level. IF the better schools (USJ, CPA, FRA, EH, just to name a few) volunteer to move up, it would almost stop the public/private debate at the 1A level, but it would create even more debate at the AA level.

 

P.S. I can remember a time not too long ago when Collinwood wasn't a big time program! That is the nature of public school programs because it is not based on how much talent one can find in a small community but rather how much is available at that time. It goes in cycles! This is true of all schools to some extent, but the private metro schools are going to be able reload much quicker than the small rural schools.

[OnlineLC]

CPA is nowhere near MBA's level nor is it likely to be as the directions and intents of the 2 schools are so different. MBA and BA are well renowned for their academics and I fully agree that they should be offering financial aid to students who would otherwise not be able to attend. CPA is geared more towards a Christian based education with academics that will make the students fit in well with the good universities. Occasionally we get someone going to an ivy league school but most parents transfer their children to BA or MBA if they show an apptitude for academics. CPA was a long time in deciding if it even wanted a football program back in the early 90's as some folks feared it would change the school. As we all know, CPA did take up football and suffered many thrashings in the early years and naturally felt we should play at the same level as FRA, DCA etc. Like CPA, I'm sure MBA likes to compete in athletics with it's peers (eg BA, Father Ryan etc) and with BA being so dominant a few years back, MBA also selected to play at the same level.

 

1A is a very difficult division to manage, the difference in school sizes alone has a far bigger impact than 2A or 3A as sometimes you barely have enough kids to field a squad.

 

After this season we have 2 more under the current structure, if Privates win two of the next state championships, the TSSAA will have no option but to tackle this issue. What I would not want however is for Collinwood or South Pitt or Cloudland to suddenly feel that they are in a weak classification. They have built up good programs and we need to ensure that they feel a real sense of pride if one of them wins state after all the privates have gone.

 

 

Posted by StanTrott:

Online LC:

 

I agree 100% about the other privates you mentioned moving as well. Can you respond to the MBA question, and why MBA (was it Coach Bowers?) would play up to the highest classification? CPA probaby has not reached the MBA's level yet, but I think the same factors are part of the decision-making.

 

Having written these comments, I must be honest and say that I have conflicting emotions on the issue. It is exciting to see the intensity that exists when a private school such as CPA plays a Collinwood or Wayne County. Having attended a private school, the public-private games make the competition more interesting -- when it is fair.

 

Some small rural schools cannot compete well on any level, and when they do improve, it is devasting when they lose to a private school. It also causes problems when a private school runs the score up on a public school.

 

As far as a good public school losing to private school, I have no problem with the contest or outcome -- but I think in 1A it makes a difference. Of course, if it makes a difference in 1A, it ideally makes a difference in all classifications.

 

I think both private and public coaches and administrators have to sit in a room together and debate the issue. One party cannot make the decision without the other party's full participation.

[OnlineLC]

CPA is nowhere near MBA's level nor is it likely to be as the directions and intents of the 2 schools are so different. MBA and BA are well renowned for their academics and I fully agree that they should be offering financial aid to students who would otherwise not be able to attend. CPA is geared more towards a Christian based education with academics that will make the students fit in well with the good universities. Occasionally we get someone going to an ivy league school but most parents transfer their children to BA or MBA if they show an apptitude for academics. CPA was a long time in deciding if it even wanted a football program back in the early 90's as some folks feared it would change the school. As we all know, CPA did take up football and suffered many thrashings in the early years and naturally felt we should play at the same level as FRA, DCA etc. Like CPA, I'm sure MBA likes to compete in athletics with it's peers (eg BA, Father Ryan etc) and with BA being so dominant a few years back, MBA also selected to play at the same level.

 

1A is a very difficult division to manage, the difference in school sizes alone has a far bigger impact than 2A or 3A as sometimes you barely have enough kids to field a squad.

 

After this season we have 2 more under the current structure, if Privates win two of the next state championships, the TSSAA will have no option but to tackle this issue. What I would not want however is for Collinwood or South Pitt or Cloudland to suddenly feel that they are in a weak classification. They have built up good programs and we need to ensure that they feel a real sense of pride if one of them wins state after all the privates have gone.

 

 

Posted by StanTrott:

Online LC:

 

I agree 100% about the other privates you mentioned moving as well. Can you respond to the MBA question, and why MBA (was it Coach Bowers?) would play up to the highest classification? CPA probaby has not reached the MBA's level yet, but I think the same factors are part of the decision-making.

 

Having written these comments, I must be honest and say that I have conflicting emotions on the issue. It is exciting to see the intensity that exists when a private school such as CPA plays a Collinwood or Wayne County. Having attended a private school, the public-private games make the competition more interesting -- when it is fair.

 

Some small rural schools cannot compete well on any level, and when they do improve, it is devasting when they lose to a private school. It also causes problems when a private school runs the score up on a public school.

 

As far as a good public school losing to private school, I have no problem with the contest or outcome -- but I think in 1A it makes a difference. Of course, if it makes a difference in 1A, it ideally makes a difference in all classifications.

 

I think both private and public coaches and administrators have to sit in a room together and debate the issue. One party cannot make the decision without the other party's full participation.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

First off, MBA SHOULD compete at the highest level...heck they have like 700 boys right? What do you want them to do play 2A ball with that? BA only has 300 kids period...if they play AA thats a lot different then MBA electing to do it.

[RealGoEagles]

Two things about this discussion:

 

1. MBA is an all boys school. Therefore their total enrollment is doubled when determining classification. This puts them out of the single A argument, the 2 and 3a argument as well.

2. MBA has been around longer than almost every PUBLIC school in Nashville. It has been well established in academics and athletics for close to if not more than 100 years.

 

To compare CPA and MBA at this point in the light of this discussion makes little if any sense. CPA is barely over ten years old. If i'm correct they are moving into their 9th year of varsity football. Not to mention their enrollment is half of MBA's.

 

I'm for a split, just because I'm tired of all the whining. The argument about privates having an advantage over rural publics is hooey. Before CPA won the state championship in 2000 they were knocked out of the playoffs by a public every time. 4 times by Trousdale, 1 time by Cloudland.

 

In all sports one team is going to have an advantage over another team. That's why it's sport. Trying to legislate a state championship for your team by getting rid of the teams that you feel are better totally defeats the purpose of competing.

 

Did Collinwood have an advantage over DCA and CPA? They must have. They beat them. Who's public and who's private there?

 

Some teams are better than others in any given year. Public/private be ######. To make excuses or put blame on someone's shoulders other than your own does little more than to make you look like a cry baby.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Posted by ELA:

Posted by StanTrott:

Online LC:

 

I agree 100% about the other privates you mentioned moving as well. Can you respond to the MBA question, and why MBA (was it Coach Bowers?) would play up to the highest classification? CPA probaby has not reached the MBA's level yet, but I think the same factors are part of the decision-making.

 

Having written these comments, I must be honest and say that I have conflicting emotions on the issue. It is exciting to see the intensity that exists when a private school such as CPA plays a Collinwood or Wayne County. Having attended a private school, the public-private games make the competition more interesting -- when it is fair.

 

Some small rural schools cannot compete well on any level, and when they do improve, it is devasting when they lose to a private school. It also causes problems when a private school runs the score up on a public school.

 

As far as a good public school losing to private school, I have no problem with the contest or outcome -- but I think in 1A it makes a difference. Of course, if it makes a difference in 1A, it ideally makes a difference in all classifications.

 

I think both private and public coaches and administrators have to sit in a room together and debate the issue. One party cannot make the decision without the other party's full participation.

 

Here is the interesting part of the debate. If a CPA can compete at the 2A or 3A level and still dominate (as many agree), then why would they remain in the smallest classification? I have always said that most of the private schools would be better suited for AA ball and should play at that level with Goodpasture and D.L.! The only problem with that is you would then see more AA teams moving up to AAA to avoid playing them. I also think that schools like N. Christian and Lighthouse can only compete at the 1A level. IF the better schools (USJ, CPA, FRA, EH, just to name a few) volunteer to move up, it would almost stop the public/private debate at the 1A level, but it would create even more debate at the AA level.

 

P.S. I can remember a time not too long ago when Collinwood wasn't a big time program! That is the nature of public school programs because it is not based on how much talent one can find in a small community but rather how much is available at that time. It goes in cycles! This is true of all schools to some extent, but the private metro schools are going to be able reload much quicker than the small rural schools.

 

Ela...I`ll make a comment on your post, and would like to hear your honest response.

 

When you say..." IF the better schools (USJ, CPA, FRA, EH, just to name a few) volunteer to move up, it would almost stop the public/private debate at the 1A level, but it would create even more debate at the AA level."

 

When is it time for public school coaches to just drop their predjudices against private schools and just shut up and play ball?

 

If they did move up to 2A and those coaches complained or their schools moved out then here we go again. I know Trousdale has now moved out of 1A because of numbers, but I don`t think I ever heard of any private school coaches banding together to try and oust trousdale because they were kicking everyone`s butt in 1A. Do you not think that publis school coaches should just realize that private schools have as just as much right to compete against all schools as the public schools do. I really see some bad animosity here. I would have thought that when the financial aid privates were separated that the most of this bickering would end, but apparently it has not. can you not look at your post (the part that I copied) and see why you are looked upon as whiners?

 

Thanks

VG

[VolunteerGeneral]

I would like to make some comments regarding 1A to those of you who do not like private schools. First let`s take a look at1A for what it is now. You have about 5 or 6 really good private schools in 1A. Also every year there are usually that many good public schools. The public schools may not be the same ones year in and year out, but there are usually several good ones in any given year. What this means is that Class 1A is not something to look down on. It is a very competitive Class even though it is comprised of the smallest schools in the state. Having this many good teams gives Class 1A respect. A state title in 1A really is something to work hard for and be proud of. In reality, what difference would it make if a private school happens to be the one who win the title? It shouldn`t matter any more than if a public school wins it. Private schools have won the first two of this decade, but public schools won 7 of 10 in the previous decade...so what? Whenever I see a team hoist a gold or silver football I have respect for that team whether they are private or public. Yes, Ezell beat up on Cloudland pretty good last year, but that doesn`t take anything away from the Highlanders because to reach the title game in Class 1A means something. To get there you have to really work hard and earn it. The way it is right now, everyone who follows high school football can look at Class 1A and know that it is 1st Class! If you take away a lot of the good competition in 1A then what will you have? Class 1A won`t be what it is today.

 

As for these small rural county schools who don`t do well...If private schools are taken out, these schools will still be the same pitiful programs that they are today. Nothing you can do to private schools will ever change that. The only way that will ever change is if that particular community, that school district, that school, that student body decides to change it. If those schools ever want to get to the level of the Bruceton`s, the Cloudlands, Collinwoods, South Pittsburgs....etc..then they are the ones who will have to make the change. At some of these schools there are good athletes there who don`t play football. Some of these schools primarily rest their laurels on basketball and don`t really care about football. Until attitudes change in these communities, until these communities decide to get behind their football coach and football program, they will most certainly continue to wallow in mediocrity. The same thing applies to those private schools that rest every year in the bottom rungs of 1A's ladder. Until they make that committment really support that team, they will be the same. And in reality, there are more average to below average private schools in1A than there are good ones.

I don`t think the TSSAA should go shuffling schools around just to appease folks who just don`t like playing private schools. If they are separated, that would mean that the 4 private schools in West TN, would have to start going to Nashville to play a regional game. It would also mean that some one in Nashville would have to start making trips to West TN to play games. I would hope that the TSSAA would have enough sense to realize that they need to be objective and see the problems that this would bring for several schools.

In summary, I really wish that people would get rid of their predjudices and bias and see Class 1A for what it is, a really strong, well respected class throughout our great state!

 

Thanks

VG