No privates in 1A?

[Chakra20]

Well me and you have went around around on this issue and we have agreed that we disagree on many points. You bringing the same arguments to the table that have been discussed in the past and nothing new has come to light. I think when the new divisions are set you will see some changes in where these schools are. Why else would ezell be going to play Brentwodd Academy the next 2 years.

 

Many of these schools have seen the exact thing they are not growing their program in 1a and its time to move on. Now to say ur gonna get rid of all them is ludicris, but you will lose CPA, Ezell and maybe a few more. But the competiveness in 1a is gonna be gone. You will have a championship maybe one day but its not gonn be against top notch competition but it will be against teams that u are very simalar to which is what u want i think. i know u really beleive your team got robbed by the system last year but they didnt they wouldnt have won anyways Jo Byrns who finished 4th in ezells district would have gave cloudland a run for their money not to be spitefull thats the truth. This year i hope top see you guys make another run and win the whole thing if ezell isnt there of coarse. Ill be routing for you guys if Ezell gets put out.

 

I really beleive the Cloudland has a good team and i hope the kids involved in that wreck are ok. Could you let us know?

[pujo]

One of the guys in the wreck was my nephew and our best lineman.They were all very forunate to be alive.God was with these boys and they are all ok.Jeffs football season is over but his life is'nt.Thanks for your concern and good luck this season.

[BDURHAM]

OnlineLC:

 

I am going to use and extreme example to make a point, so please stay with me...

 

If David Pack was coaching at Lighthouse Christian or Cornersville, do you think he would have the same amount of success he has had at CPA -- given the same amount of time to develop the program? I think you may agree with me and say no.

 

Joe Paterno, Bear Bryant, Vince Lombardi, etc. were/are great coaches, but without talent and great players, they don't win. What gives CPA an advantage? I will list a few, and Panfan, please keep it all in context:

 

1) CPA draws from at least two counties and probably 5-7 different school districts. The students can all attend the school from K-12, but the drawing area is geographically larger than other 1A schools.

 

2) CPA has the advantage of developing athletes from K-12, more importantly, 6-12. Yes, public schools can also do this in theory, but most all public schools, including 1A schools have a different campus for middle/junior high. And too many public schools run a different offense/defense in high school as opposed to middle/junior high.

 

* A good private school coach once told me that a major advantage he had was teaching the same system all the way through. He said his private school had lesser athletes than the public schools he was beating, but it was the "system" they could develop that made the private school competitive. Many people, maybe you included would call this "coaching." It is easier to develop these "systems" in private schools. Ezell and CPA are good example of how these developmental systems work.

 

3) Individual coaching, training, camps, etc. are more available to private schools. Some CPA players have had a trainer who works with the Titans work with them. Not even South Pitt, Collinwood or Wayne County have these types of opportunities. Furthermore, camp opportunities are not readily available to "farm" boys who have to work during the summer.

 

4) Facilities, equipment, video teaching aids, etc. are much more available at private schools. Weights, fan support, transportation, etc. are real advantages. Fatigue and conditioning are important, and equipment, facilities and transportation make a difference. For example, a kid rides in a yellow bus from Wayne County to CPA. How does the CPA team travel to Wayne County?

 

5) A student-athlete may not be as distracted in a private school environment as he would be in a public school environment. A couple of examples: There are no problem students who might be on drugs or who have behavioral problems disrupting the routine at a private school. A private school can expel or not admit students that a public school must deal with on a day-to-day basis. Another example, a private school can make more exceptions for football teams in terms of travel time, meals, meetings, etc. than a public school can.

 

Need I continue? Can we have an honest debate if we don't admit that private schools have advantages over public schools? And yes, private schools have disadvantages as well...

 

Many private schools are relatively new institutions and are growing over time. Many public schools are institutions that are fighting to survive. Benefactors who choose to fund schools such as CPA keep the institution alive and growing. Try going to a booster meeting at some of the 1A schools CPA plays against and tell me the funding and support for athletics are equal.

 

A kid who is malnourished physically and spiritually will have more obstacles to overcome on the road to success than 95% of the kids who attend CPA. It all makes a difference, and to say there is an equal playing field is not true.

[Edited by StanTrott on 8-27-02 8:55P]

 

[ELA]

Stan, I have argued these same points with Vol Gen and a few others on here for six months or more, and they just refuse to see the facts. Yes, coaching makes a difference but without talent, no team can win championships! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! At least someone understands the reality of coaching on this website!

[Guest 481]

I too agree wholeheartedly with you. But you also forgot one additional item, supplements. A family that can afford a $8,000 a year tuition is in a better position to pay for the protein drinks, weight gainer mixes, creatine powders, androwhatever, and other vitamins required for serious bodybuilding then can the parents of a student/athlete in a small rural school that are both working in some sweat shop to earn $50,000 per year.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

And when did this become the private schools fault that the publics cant afford weight rooms, better training facilities, video equipment.

 

 

 

Maybe we should let hard core criminals walk the street, because society did not fully equip them with enough tools to get through life, It is our fault as tax payers that Little Johnny Stole drugs in order to feed his family...I'm sorry but that is not how it is...

 

 

 

THAT IS LIFE, AND I CANT BELIEVE FOOTBALL COACHES OF ALL THINGS WOULD BE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT?

[OnlineLC]

Wow a lot to respond to here and your effort certainly justifies a response.

 

Firtly with regard to your pre-amble.

 

I agree that Lighthouse would be hard to coach as it is a tiny school, however I do think someone of Dave Pack's or Coach Smiths caliber would cerainly improve their win statistics as he would in all likelihood get more kids willing to play and would teach them to play better. Let me ask a question, if Satterfield was coaching a team like Jo-Byrns, don't you expect that with time they too would become a factor in 1A. I certainly expect they would and I don't mean any disrespect to the current coach, but Satterfield would get better results because he is among the best.

 

Now to your points

 

1) CPA does draw from Williamson and Davidson counties. Most kids are within a 5-10 mile radius of the school at most as the traffic is just too bad to make anything further practical.Our student population is made up of kids who have been there from Kindergarten and for the most part are church members. Why did that give us an advantage in 2000 when all the key players had been there since Kindergarten when we did not even have a football program? I don't see why a population of 250 High School Kids coming from a church would be so much more athletically capable than a 250 population High Scool in Rural Tennessee. Occasionally we have a kid come to the school who has moved into town and can find a spot in a grade with openings, sometimes that child may also be athletic. Guess what, it goes the other way also, we have lost several kids who would have made a huge difference in football (Kevyn Murray to Franklin High is a classic example, others to MBA and BA)

 

2) Middle School Development and coaching may have an impact. Dave Pack does not coach the Middle School but he does talk a lot to the coach. Why can't the High School Coaches in rural Tennessee take the same time? Again thinking of Trousdale, I think Satterfiled may coach MS as well but am not sure.

 

3) You assume that all the kids on the team are wealthy and do not have to work in the summer. There are one or two extremely rich people at CPA, but there are also a lot of parents who make substantial sacrifices to let their kids attend. The tuition at CPA is deliberatley kept as low as humanly possibe to try and keep it affordable. One or two kids may have gone to individual training camps, but if they think they may want to play ball why wouldn't they? If you had a child who had an aptitude for academics and had a shot at an academic scholarship would you not sacrifice a little as a parent and try and make it happen by letting him take a few summer classes. What is the difference?

 

4) Facilities. Our buses are Purple and White on the outside but they aren't that different from a Yellow Bus inside. 1999 was when we built our facilty, our weight room was a joke before that, yet we were already starting to have success. I simply don't buy the fan support argument, Collinwood, Cloudland don't seem to struggle, they are no different from a Celina or Whitwell. I agree that Fan support is a huge factor in how a team plays, however the Privates have no intrinsic advantage. Parents will encourage their kids to play ball and fans will come if they all feel there is a coach that can make a difference.

 

5) All of our kids have to deal with huge distractions whether they be Public or Private. We send our kids to a Private School to improve our odds as parents so we don't have to put them in the Metro School System. I'm sure there are problems also in rural Tennessee, but guess what, even Christian Schools have to deal with these issues as well. I would be far happier sending my child to a Cloudland or Collinwood than to a Metro School. I also don;t see our Football Players being given special exceptions for travel, meals etc. This only happens if they have to travel 2 or more hours for an away game when they may be let out a little earlier. I also know this happens in Public Schools.

 

 

Posted by StanTrott:

OnlineLC:

 

I am going to use and extreme example to make a point, so please stay with me...

 

If David Pack was coaching at Lighthouse Christian or Cornersville, do you think he would have the same amount of success he has had at CPA -- given the same amount of time to develop the program? I think you may agree with me and say no.

 

Joe Paterno, Bear Bryant, Vince Lombardi, etc. were/are great coaches, but without talent and great players, they don't win. What gives CPA an advantage? I will list a few, and Panfan, please keep it all in context:

 

1) CPA draws from at least two counties and probably 5-7 different school districts. The students can all attend the school from K-12, but the drawing area is geographically larger than other 1A schools.

 

2) CPA has the advantage of developing athletes from K-12, more importantly, 6-12. Yes, public schools can also do this in theory, but most all public schools, including 1A schools have a different campus for middle/junior high. And too many public schools run a different offense/defense in high school as opposed to middle/junior high.

 

* A good private school coach once told me that a major advantage he had was teaching the same system all the way through. He said his private school had lesser athletes than the public schools he was beating, but it was the "system" they could develop that made the private school competitive. Many people, maybe you included would call this "coaching." It is easier to develop these "systems" in private schools. Ezell and CPA are good example of how these developmental systems work.

 

3) Individual coaching, training, camps, etc. are more available to private schools. Some CPA players have had a trainer who works with the Titans work with them. Not even South Pitt, Collinwood or Wayne County have these types of opportunities. Furthermore, camp opportunities are not readily available to "farm" boys who have to work during the summer.

 

4) Facilities, equipment, video teaching aids, etc. are much more available at private schools. Weights, fan support, transportation, etc. are real advantages. Fatigue and conditioning are important, and equipment, facilities and transportation make a difference. For example, a kid rides in a yellow bus from Wayne County to CPA. How does the CPA team travel to Wayne County?

 

5) A student-athlete may not be as distracted in a private school environment as he would be in a public school environment. A couple of examples: There are no problem students who might be on drugs or who have behavioral problems disrupting the routine at a private school. A private school can expel or not admit students that a public school must deal with on a day-to-day basis. Another example, a private school can make more exceptions for football teams in terms of travel time, meals, meetings, etc. than a public school can.

 

Need I continue? Can we have an honest debate if we don't admit that private schools have advantages over public schools? And yes, private schools have disadvantages as well...

 

Many private schools are relatively new institutions and are growing over time. Many public schools are institutions that are fighting to survive. Benefactors who choose to fund schools such as CPA keep the institution alive and growing. Try going to a booster meeting at some of the 1A schools CPA plays against and tell me the funding and support for athletics are equal.

 

A kid who is malnourished physically and spiritually will have more obstacles to overcome on the road to success than 95% of the kids who attend CPA. It all makes a difference, and to say there is an equal playing field is not true.

[Edited by StanTrott on 8-27-02 8:55P]

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I really wish people would understand that so many kids at private schools are not that rich. Most of my friends are going to the University of Memphis, and are either taking student loans, or are just thankful that they can afford to go there. You have to go to private schools in memphis, because you are taking a chance of falling in to the wrong crowd.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Posted by 481:

I too agree wholeheartedly with you. But you also forgot one additional item, supplements. A family that can afford a $8,000 a year tuition is in a better position to pay for the protein drinks, weight gainer mixes, creatine powders, androwhatever, and other vitamins required for serious bodybuilding then can the parents of a student/athlete in a small rural school that are both working in some sweat shop to earn $50,000 per year.

 

 

Wow what a fun post! Is this why Columbia Academy kicks butt every year?

 

Do you think that there are kids in small rural public school who go out and buy beer, or marijuana, or some other drugs? I guess you are saying that small rural public school kids don`t do these things because they don`t have the money.

 

Do some of you people even think before you post?

[VolunteerGeneral]

Hey Online...I gave you a good mark. Thanks for responding to that post. You did well. I was about to take on the task but you handled it well. If he has anymore questions, I`ll try to chime in some.

 

BTW...I liked your use of the word firtly.

[Edited by VolunteerGeneral on 8-27-02 11:31P]

 

[panfan]

Well now, online LC did a fine job on his post there. Stan and ELA. Don't you think it is a bit arrogant to say that your OPINION equals fact and to make a statement like, some people just don't except facts is a bit, well, hypocritical. I haven't seen either of you move on the issue dispite ALL the new ideas thrown at you. I think both STAN and ELA are dead wrong on this issue. Not that that is a surprise or something we didn't already know. So, in my opinion you two are the ones who won't accept new ideas or accept fact.

 

I have seen no answer for the fact that NO 1A private school has EVER dominated by winning more that 2 championships (and by the way, only 1 has won two).

 

I have seen NO answer for the fact that the enlarged geographical area is of no concern due to the academic and financial restrictions of the schools.

 

2) if public schools can not establish a PROGRAM from six through 12, they have no one to blame but themselves. Don't try and punish private schools b/c public school coaches won't communicate with middle school coaches. By the way, we are speaking of rural publics here. Obviously, Metro schools this would be more difficult. 1A is mostly rural anyway. By the way, look again at Satterfield. His guys can do it, so it can be done.

 

3) you may be right about not having personal trainers, but to be honest, those guys are just ego driven terds. If you get your tail in the weight room, and work hard for a few hours, you'll get bigger. NOw, as far as all the weight gain and vitamins and jazz, sure kids with more money can afford that. So, are we going to base divisions on income of the county, or maybe average income or the students. By the way, for a three month supply of weight gain, you're looking at 60-80 bucks. Something tells me they could work for that. By the way, for bigger public schools like say Farragut, Brentwood, Germantown that are in "rich" areas, do you make a seperate division for them??? Come on!!!!

 

4) VERY WEAK POINTS HERE for you Stan. I submit that the means of transportation, as long as the air works, is of so little importance I am shocked you brought it up. FAN SUPPORT. Oh my goodness, rural towns shut down when there team is playing. I remember going to Celina in 1990 for a playoff game and the whole town was there. RURAL public schools easily have better support.

 

5) Distractions. Maybe there are fewer kids on drugs and stuff at private schools, but there are plenty of distractions. There are plenty of kids at EVERY private school with drinking problems, some with drug problems and so on. Kids are kids.

 

SO, STAN, YOU DO NEED TO CONTINUE. And you probably should find some new points. none of these worked.

 

As far as the whine and cry and feel sorry for you last couple paragraphs, I am sorry to say, but having money does not solve all problems. ALL people have obsticles in life. Sure, having money may help, but it does not rid you of problems. Do this for me Stan, call some college coaches. ASK THEM WHO THEY WANT. ASK THEM IF THEY WANT RICH EASY STREET KIDS, OR A KID WHO HAS HAD TO STRUGGLE AND WORK HIS WHOLE LIFE. 9 of 10 COLLEGE COACHES WILL TELL YOU THEY WANT THE KID WHO HAS STRUGGLED. the point is, it may not be a fair playing field. maybe it is easier to make a kid work hard if he has worked before, than it is to work a kid with a playstation2 and big screen at home. just a thought man.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I truly wish people could understand their own ignorance, and realize that not all private school parents are rich.

 

Also, not all public school parents are middle class, some are poor, some are rich, some are cheap, some are extravagant etc. IT GOES BOTH WAYS!

 

 

The personal trainer thing is just a ridiculous post, My brother and I went to Dean Lotz personal training...who is one of the best personal trainers in the country. Right now he has a machine that costs over 75,000 dollars...can you believe that? The Miami Dolphins are the only other team, individual, or program that has this, and are being documented as we speak by swarms of doctors. Lotz has trained individuals such as Mike McKenzie (all pro packers), Jerome Woods (all pro chiefs), Penny Hardaway, Dwayne Rudd, Antowain Smith, Jimmie Snap Hunter, etc.

 

Now I can sit here and name private school and public school names, but that will do no good...the majority of kids that go to him are public school kids like Dane Bradshaw (UT committed), Rueben Mayes (UT committed), Scooter McFadgon (UT transfer) etc.

 

You guys know nothing at all about public schools, just as I know nothing at all about small rural schools...the difference is, I don't get on here and say things about how small rural schools are evil, out of date, or poor...because I DONT KNOW IF THEY ARE! BUT YOU GUYS SEEM TO KNOW IF PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE? COME ON NOW.