Ryan vs. Overton

[Matmax]

I can't speak for much before Lussier's time as coach and am not trying to point a finger at him specifically. And certainly his previous team / school / parents hated to lose him.

 

IMHO Ryan probably couldn't compete well with the upper teams in their league this year, but I do know there are several more quality football players at the school than are listed on the roster.

 

Not saying it is anybody's fault. I believe there to be several dynamics in the mix.

[cbg]

Wow when does wrestling season start?

"Wow when does wrestling season start?" Is that not what you Ryan boy's cry during football season most every year? Why is it that the Irish win state titles in wrestling but have trouble in football with many of the same athletes? Is Pat Simpson that good of a coach?

 

Ryan wins state titles in many more sports than wrestling, and is near the top of all schools in the state of Tennessee in total number of state championships, lets don't hang our heads too much. PS IMO, Pat Simpson is one of the best high school wrestling coaches in the country.

You seem to know alot about wrestling so I would like to ask you who are the top 10 high school wrestling coaches in the USA? What are the top 10 programs?

[Johnboy]

When you run as many talented players off as this current coaching staff there is problems. He might be able to coach better talented athletes. But, In this his 5th season has done nothing.

[KWoodroof]

 

Your statements are interesting. The current coach, Lussier has only been at Ryan for about four years. He seemed to do a good job at Oak Ridge as those folks hated to lose him. Are you sure its the coaches fault or anybody's fault, maybe Ryan just doesn't have enough quality athletes at this time to field a competitive football team in the toughest division in the state of Tennessee, maybe thats it.

 

Sometimes I think the wrong question gets asked. Instead of asking why Ryan struggles in football so badly right now, a better focus would be on how they managed to stay so competitive for so long. Though the mid '70's, there were very few private high schools in the Nashville area. As schools aprang up and succeeded, Ryan's share of the maket dropped. Nashville is really not a Catholic area, so they lost a significant number of their protestant students. Add in the rising cost of all private education, and Ryan lost a lot of its Catholic student body as well. Throw in JPII, and the success of their athletic programs becomes truly amazing.

 

If you assume that most of the students in JPII and FR are Catholic (and I'm sure STS can offer some insight on that), it becomes interesting to compare Nashville with Ft. Lauderdale. The Ft. Laud area has about 1.7 million people, over a quarter of whom are Catholic. There are 4 Catholic high schools, for one high school per 105,000 Catholics. Small wonder St. Thomas Aquinas is a perennial powerhouse, and Chaminade-Madonna usually goes deep in the playoffs. I can't imagine that the Nashville area has more than 50,000 Catholics (although I'm guessing here), and they're split between two schools.

 

Again, looking at it in terms of demographics, the trouble in football seems a little more understandable, and their success elsewhere becomes more impressive.

[fiftyfifty]

 

Your statements are interesting. The current coach, Lussier has only been at Ryan for about four years. He seemed to do a good job at Oak Ridge as those folks hated to lose him. Are you sure its the coaches fault or anybody's fault, maybe Ryan just doesn't have enough quality athletes at this time to field a competitive football team in the toughest division in the state of Tennessee, maybe thats it.

 

Sometimes I think the wrong question gets asked. Instead of asking why Ryan struggles in football so badly right now, a better focus would be on how they managed to stay so competitive for so long. Though the mid '70's, there were very few private high schools in the Nashville area. As schools aprang up and succeeded, Ryan's share of the maket dropped. Nashville is really not a Catholic area, so they lost a significant number of their protestant students. Add in the rising cost of all private education, and Ryan lost a lot of its Catholic student body as well. Throw in JPII, and the success of their athletic programs becomes truly amazing.

 

If you assume that most of the students in JPII and FR are Catholic (and I'm sure STS can offer some

 

 

 

insight on that), it becomes interesting to compare Nashville with Ft. Lauderdale. The Ft. Laud area has about 1.7 million people, over a quarter of whom are Catholic. There are 4 Catholic high schools, for one high school per 105,000 Catholics. Small wonder St. Thomas Aquinas is a perennial powerhouse, and Chaminade-Madonna usually goes deep in the playoffs. I can't imagine that the Nashville area has more than 50,000 Catholics (although I'm guessing here), and they're split between two schools.

 

Again, looking at it in terms of demographics, the trouble in football seems a little more understandable, and their success elsewhere becomes more impressive.

 

KWoodroff, always a good wise well thought out post. The Catholic population at Father Ryan is over 50%, probably over 60%, at JPII there is a slighter difference in Catholic versus non-Catholic. The compeition for athletes is steep. There are many fine private schools in the Nashville area to pick from as you well know. There are approximately 80 thousand Catholics in the Nashville diosese, maybe a little higher. I haven't looked at the official figures lately. There are now three dioseses in the state of Tennessee. Ryan used to get students from a good distance away in years past, not so much the case anymore. I could not agree more with your statement about with the current situation that Ryan's success in several sports is amazing. As to several athletes walking the halls and not playing, well we both have heard similiar statements before, bottom line they don't want to play. Father Ryan's focus has changed over the last 30 years, it is a coed school. Many of the old guard remember the glory days when football was king, but memories are sometimes a little foggy. Ryan has won 2 football state championships unless you go back to the 1930;s, TSSAA doesn't list that early one, so the reality is somewhat of an urban legend when speaking of Ryan football. Yes they had some great teams, always hit hard and had great rivalries. But the truth of the matter is IMO they could not be looked in the same vein as MBA, Brentwood Academy, Maryville, or Alcoa. Many will not like this post, but I guess that depends on what you consider a successful school. I think Ryan is one of the finest high schools in the state of Tennessee, and is for many, many people a school to be

very proud of their athletic accomplishments, just not so much in football. Perhaps things will improve with a new home stadium, or perhaps it will never meet some peoples expectations no matter how successful they are. For many, all their athletic accomplishments are judged by their success in football, but thank God, Ryan is very attuned to many different sports as the scoreboard often reflects. As to your statement about cost, Jim Carel, who donated over a million dollars to the construction of the new stadium stated that he is very concerned with the financial aid at Ryan and does not wish to see only the affluent attend there, but affordable for every student that has a desire to attend there, this is my biggest concern as well. And before anyone posts that football is the answer, I disagree, contributions from concerned alumni must increase to the financial aid or Ryan may go where most Catholics would not wish them to. Some will say that contributions depend on the success of football, but I say that if the only way you will contribute to the schools is if they are successfull in football, then you have lost focus on what a Catholic high school is. Ps hope you are doing well, and it looks as if MBA and Ensworth is going to be a heck of a game, I hope you get to see it.

[fiftyfifty]

To CBG,

 

No idea who the top wrestling coaches are. But it is obvious that Simpson has to be one of the top coaches in high school. His teams have won multiple state titles and are extremely competitive year in and year out. His whole family knows wrestling and have proven that both on the high school level and college level in many areas of this country.

[big red big blue]

I really think Ryan will be a different animal the next decade or so now that they have their own stadium. It's going to take a while for kids in the parochial leagues to adjust. I don't want to use the word "recruiting" but IMO Ryan will have a much better sell to its natural constituency (kids playing in the parochial leagues) now that they have a stadium and atmosphere to present to these kids. I can't imagine what a detriment that's been over the years....if you were a kid in the parochial system and took football seriously, wouldn't you choose the school with the gleaming stadium? Versus playing at dumps like Bellevue and Greer Stadium? How many Catholic families would really bring their families to Greer Stadium? I'll bet a ton of them will bring them to Ryan's campus...it's just something Ryan has missed out on for years and years. MBA, BA, etc., have always had that.

 

That said, I think Lussier is in over his head. Kurt Page is/was a great coach and had success there. Someone like him can take over and the Nashville area will be murderers' row with MBA, EHS, FRHS, and BA.

[Johnboy]

A quick look at Father Ryan and you say wow. This is an impressive school. That is until you get over there. Father Ryan never in it's History Fired a football coach until they started hireing principles/Presidents from outside the Ryan Family. Since then they have fired 2 head Football coaches.

 

They have an academic Dean who refuses to allow the head Coach hire assistants and get them into the building. To enhance the program.

 

The Board of Directors do not want Ryan to be a Football dominate school like it was in the 70's and 80's. So football will always be an after thought at Father Ryan.

 

It will be interesting how the Alumni react to this season. Will a 3rd football coach be fired? Tune into this station in January to find out. I am sure the Alumni will be up in arms if they lose to many. The Alumni Board and Board of Directors will get tired of the complaints soon enough.

[Matmax]

Ryan has allowed the head coach to hire assistants, and one is now on the academic staff, and that is where the current daddyball / team morale / talented football players not being on the roster problems are rooted. I'm not saying anything on the board that isn't being said on the street but I may get run out of town for saying it!

[FR1968]

I agree with you Matmax. Lussier made a very bad hire in the Offensive Coordinator four years ago. That decision has completely ruined any good reputation he may have brought with him from Oak Ridge. I decided to check out the team last Friday---where was the coaching? Should have a kicked the 52 yard field goal in the 3rd instead of taking the delay of game and punting. Good punt, great field position, but the offense was struggling to move the ball all night. Let’s face it, the best chance for Ryan to score this year is going to be the kicker. Period. Last drive 4th and 20+, 2 time outs remaining, and you get a delay of game---coaching. I saw zero enthusiasm on the sidelines---that starts at the top---lack of leadership IMO.

[fiftyfifty]

A quick look at Father Ryan and you say wow. This is an impressive school. That is until you get over there. Father Ryan never in it's History Fired a football coach until they started hireing principles/Presidents from outside the Ryan Family. Since then they have fired 2 head Football coaches.

 

They have an academic Dean who refuses to allow the head Coach hire assistants and get them into the building. To enhance the program.

 

The Board of Directors do not want Ryan to be a Football dominate school like it was in the 70's and 80's. So football will always be an after thought at Father Ryan.

 

It will be interesting how the Alumni react to this season. Will a 3rd football coach be fired? Tune into this station in January to find out. I am sure the Alumni will be up in arms if they lose to many. The Alumni Board and Board of Directors will get tired of the complaints soon enough.

 

Well, everyone has an opinion. My opinion is a little different than yours. As to your statement about hiring assistants, if they had 20 assistants at this point and time it would make little difference. The talent is what it is. I don't believe for one second that the board of directors or anyone associated with Ryan want football to be an after thought as you put it. But perhaps those in power don't want football or its coaches to handle anything other than the proper way and to follow the rules. I have taken many quick and long looks at Ryan and remain very impressed. Of course, I don't judge a school by how many football games it wins. It is in essence a Catholic school and very impressive. That was an interresting comment about Kurt Page, he had a good run in 1997, but the two or three years he stayed after that was a downhill slide. So you can say they dominated the 70's if you want to, but the fact is they won a single title and in nine other seasons somebody beat them when it counted every time.

 

You spoke of the Alumni Board and stated that they don't care about football enough. But it sounds like enough for some people is to put football at the forefront of everything which as anyone knows creates a ton of problems. If the Board would do this, they need to get a new board. Ryan sports rivals any school in Tennessee when you include all sports. If you have the good ole boy notion that football is more important than anything else, then get ready to experience some hard times. Thank God, the powers that be have the wisdom and knowledge to know that all the sports are important and treat them most of the time as important. The new stadium as the MBA poster stated will probably help the football situation, more appealing etc, but MBA, Brentwood Academy, Ensworth, BGA, JPII aren't going anywhere, nor should they. So it is tough to get enough quality athletes to have a perennial winner when your current student base is limited, not to mention another Catholic high school. And remember Ryan in its whole history has won three state championships, no matter who coached them. So as I posted before alot of this glory past is more urban legend than reality. The statements about the daddy/coach etc is not a valid reason for not playing, and if you think that the players of the past all loved their coaches, then I have some property in the desert I would like to sell you. The difference is in the past they played anyway, but some of todays potential players if everything is not just perfect, well they choose not to play. I am not at all sure that a player with that atitude would help the team anyway. Life is hard, you never get everything you want, you have to compromise. I can just hear some of the disgruntled students who could play choose not to trying to explain to their child someday why they chose not to participate. It will probably sound hollow and stupid then and it is the same now. Ryan is doing just fine and as the benefactor Jim Carel stated at the grand opening of the stadium, the real concern presently for Father Ryan is that we ensure that it is available to any student that has a desire to go there. He does not want as many of us share this opinion for Ryan to get so expensive that only the affluent could afford to go there. That is not the Ryan most people want. This could and probably is a direct conflict with football of all things being the primary focus of a Catholic high school. It would be a sad day indeed if Ryan started handing out money to athletes for the sole purpose of sports at the expense of needy students who have a dire need in order to attend the school they love. And you thought all this talk was only about football. PS Your statement about coaches being fired, is it any different anywhere, if in this win at any cost mentality and you are the coach and you don't win enough, someone has to be blamed and it is usually the coach, so nothing new here.

[Matmax]

Stbulldog, your posts are well thought out and and I agree with most of them. However, I am not speaking of students who don't play because it is "hard" but I will leave that aside for the moment.

 

How would you explain the low team morale as it relates to the coaching issues / daddyball issues?

 

I don't believe that every player needs to "like" their coach but I do believe they have to have buy in. Even the best players that have been on Ryan's team the last few years and have great attitudes are effected by this issue. I don't believe that a football team has to be at the top all of the time. But what I do believe in is integrity at every level of coaching and doing what is best for the team overall -especially at Ryan.