Help, Need game for week 9, 2011

[PowerSweep]

I know several parents who wanted us to go DII a couple years ago when all the realignment took place, primarily because they felt we would be better suited to compete for championships than in the public school division with the 1.8 multiplier and of course Alcoa. But the school administrators (not athletic coaches) quickly ended any thoughts of that.

Would have loved to have seen CAK go the DII-A route 2 years ago but I digress...

[Govolsknox]

You're right, it would be a very competitive series between CAK and Webb. Last year and this year, Webb has probably fielded two of their very best football teams in several years so maybe you wouldn't have won but we'll never know for sure because they stopped playing each other in varsity football yet they play each other in practically everything else. Nevertheless, Webb is always trying to schedule local teams and over the past 9 years or so they haven't lost to a Knox County public school, which at different times included Bearden, Powell, West, AE, Halls and Central. I think Halls and Central are on the schedule for next year again but as a Webb supporter I would have really liked to get CAK back on the schedule. Webb also has Catholic which leaves one spot open. I've heard rumors about who is going to fill that spot, and if true, it will be a huge upgrade to next year's schedule.

 

In regard to the 75% of a DII's school starting lineup being on financial aid, I really don't know for certain about other DII schools... but Webb is way below that percentage. Also, just a point of clarification... DII schools do not offer/give scholarships, instead it's need-based financial aid that is determined by a third party entity located in another state. I know it may be parsing words to some but scholarship could imply that Webb decides who gets aid and how much. In fact, I have never heard of a student at Webb having their complete tuition paid for. Like I said, it's need-based and is usually just a percentage using many factors that the third party uses in their calculations.

 

Anyway, sorry this really isn't on topic but good luck to CAK finding someone to play. I would love to see ya'll pick up Catholic!

 

Sweep, I respect and enjoy your posts, and I'm not throwing darts directed at you, but every time the subject of financial aid comes up, this "parsing of words" as you described it is restated. That's fine, but to me it is not the KEY point in analyzing the DII athletics issue. Yes, many people use the incorrect term, "scholarships" instead of, "financial aid." But I think most people who follow high school sports know that DII schools are not offering "athletic scholarships." I think most also know that the financial aid is need based, and not just given to someone because they are a great athlete. And finally, I think most everyone knows that many who receive financial aid are not athletes at all. Again, these are not "the issue."

 

The fact is that most of us know quite a few kids who are outstanding athletes who would also love to get a private school education, but they simply can't afford it. If the private school expense goes away or is significantly reduced, then of course you are able to attract some outstanding athletes. And in TN high school football, 2 - 3 outstanding athletes mixed in with an already strong program with good athletes makes a HUGE difference. It doesn't take 75% to make a huge impact because the small percentage is mixed into what is already an excellent program. To me, this is the whole point. And when people are referring to the difference between DI and DII, this is what they are referring to, regardless of whether they incorrectly refer to it as scholarships instead of financial aid.

 

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

[Jet Pride]

Get coach try Cookeville & Smith Co.

[ColumbiaBlueNScarlet]

And in TN high school football, 2 - 3 outstanding athletes mixed in with an already strong program with good athletes makes a HUGE difference.

 

How about 2-3 big, strong, athletic offensive linemen that play hard every snap... that's what I'd like to see at Austin-East. Anybody know any that would like to get a magnet school education. We have an excellent performing arts department.

[PowerSweep]

If the private school expense goes away or is significantly reduced, then of course you are able to attract some outstanding athletes. And in TN high school football, 2 - 3 outstanding athletes mixed in with an already strong program with good athletes makes a HUGE difference.

Govolsknox... I couldn't agree more with the fact that 2-3 outstanding athletes can make a huge difference. You clearly understand how DII works with need-based financial aid and how it's not like the DII schools across the state are loading up with 75% of their starters who came to that school just because they qualified for enough aid so they could.

 

The reason I spelled it out the way I did is because, contrary to what you stated, I don't believe most everyone who follows HS football knows or understands that DII schools don't offer "athletic scholarships", that "aid" is need-based or that non-athletes receive need-based financial aid too.

 

In the end, I do agree that the difference between DI and DII in conversations usually comes down to the fact that the DII school has some athletes on their roster that wouldn't have had an opportunity to be there if it weren't for aid. However, as you know, there are many cases where a DI school "attracts" students to their school without financial aid and they can also end up with 2-3 outstanding athletes that make a huge difference.

[FootballDad]

Get coach try Cookeville & Smith Co.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but both schools have already been contacted. Coach Bradley spoke directly with Smith Co. coach (sorry I don't have his name) and has left 2 messages with the Cookeville coach but no returned calls yet.

[Govolsknox]

Govolsknox... I couldn't agree more with the fact that 2-3 outstanding athletes can make a huge difference. You clearly understand how DII works with need-based financial aid and how it's not like the DII schools across the state are loading up with 75% of their starters who came to that school just because they qualified for enough aid so they could.

 

The reason I spelled it out the way I did is because, contrary to what you stated, I don't believe most everyone who follows HS football knows or understands that DII schools don't offer "athletic scholarships", that "aid" is need-based or that non-athletes receive need-based financial aid too.

 

In the end, I do agree that the difference between DI and DII in conversations usually comes down to the fact that the DII school has some athletes on their roster that wouldn't have had an opportunity to be there if it weren't for aid. However, as you know, there are many cases where a DI school "attracts" students to their school without financial aid and they can also end up with 2-3 outstanding athletes that make a huge difference.

 

Powersweep said: contrary to what you stated, I don't believe most everyone who follows HS football knows or understands that DII schools don't offer "athletic scholarships"

 

Perhaps.

 

Powersweep: However, as you know, there are many cases where a DI school "attracts" students to their school without financial aid and they can also end up with 2-3 outstanding athletes that make a huge difference.

 

I agree with your post, but I'll add this. (I'll use estimated percentages to make the point, actual percentages would certainly vary from school to school.) If you took all of the top athletes, the best of the best, at public schools throughout a metro area, perhaps 25% (probably less) might be able to attend a private school without aid if they wanted to. But perhaps 75%+ would have no way to go to a private without aid, whether that was because they couldn't afford it or because their parents weren't willing to make it a priority to afford it. That difference is no small matter. I won't use names for obvious reason, but imagine what adding the number one or two running back in the area would do for Catholic, Grace, etc. Or imagine as Columbia said above, what adding a couple D-1 linemen would do for a small private school. While the DI private may attract some excellent athletes for the football program and the excellent academics, the reality is that there is approximately 3+ times as many outstanding athletes that would be ruled out if financial aid is not an option, and that IMO is the key point in discussing DI and DII.

[big red big blue]

Sweep, many of us Warrior fans would like to continue to play Webb. Our football program continues to improve, especially in the past couple of years, and I believe the Warriors are capable of competing with the Spartans, not sure if we could win but they should be entertaining and very competitive games. We play each other in most other sports already. I know many of us have a great respect for Webbs athletic programs. I know CAK is actively soliciting a game with Catholic at this time.

 

The main issue I believe is simply the financial aid/scholarship players that DII schools recruit and put on the field. I've heard numbers as high as 75% of a DII schools starting lineup being scholarship athletes (not sure what Webb's is, haven't heard that number) A "hand picked team" if you will. While CAK, being a private school, gets unjustly accussed of recruiting athletes with financial incentives, we do not do that. I believe the powers that be feel like we should play against schools that do not offer scholarships. Not saying that I agree, just trying to answer the question.

 

Wow, you've heard some really bad information. Doesn't surprise me though.

[PowerSweep]

Govolsknox... I think we can both agree that DI and DII schools end up with some athletes by other means than a family paying tuition at a DII school or being zoned to a certain DI school. DI schools get these kids through family moves or student change in guardianship, transfers, hardships or open zones while DII schools get them via need-based financial aid. Each benefitting albeit from different methods however the end result is that DI and DII schools attract students.

[warhorse]

Our district 5-AA can't compete with you guys (exception of Polk) but try the AAA district in our area: McMinn County, Cleveland, Walker Valley, Soddy-Daisy, Rhea County, Ooltewah

[FootballDad]

Our district 5-AA can't compete with you guys (exception of Polk) but try the AAA district in our area: McMinn County, Cleveland, Walker Valley, Soddy-Daisy, Rhea County, Ooltewah

Thanks. I know Coach Bradley has mentioned everyone of those teams to me except for Walker Valley, not sure if he's spoken with them. All said NO for various reasons. The week 9 thing is tough for some teams due to district games being scheduled for that week and tough for us because we have Alcoa on week 10. Its getting gloomier as the days pass by, but hopefully something positive will happen soon. Thanks again for your suggestion. I'll run them by coach again.

Edited November 5, 2010 by FootballDad