Update on moving the State Tournament

[mat73557]

I hear what you guys are saying and Im not arguing but no one answered my question.  How many high schoolers shower at GP West?  Cleveland? Heck, for that matter how many shower at school after a regular season dual?   My guess is VERY few if any at all.  They almost all wait until they get home.  That's a fact. 

 

Personally, I think the no shower at the cow palace argument is very weak if that is the main reason we are going to use to convince a change.  I think the atmosphere there leaves a TON to be desired compared to what we see in other states so that should be the main focus. 

[reftn]

I hear what you guys are saying and Im not arguing but no one answered my question.  How many high schoolers shower at GP West?  Cleveland? Heck, for that matter how many shower at school after a regular season dual?   My guess is VERY few if any at all.  They almost all wait until they get home.  That's a fact. 

 

Personally, I think the no shower at the cow palace argument is very weak if that is the main reason we are going to use to convince a change.  I think the atmosphere there leaves a TON to be desired compared to what we see in other states so that should be the main focus. 

Its an attempt to create leverage to start momentum for a change of venue.  There are a list of them.  A lot of people will jump on the bandwagon and rah rah each talking point, but I tend to agree with you, there is little but air in the bag.

[ccleveland]

One thing I've always been curious about is the air quality at the Ag Center. I feel like every time we go there I get sick. Also, after only walking around on the main floor for about 20 minutes my shoes are covered in dirt.

 

I think the Traditional State and State Duals have been run great the past few years and have a great support staff in place. Joe Blair, Josh Peck, Pete Miller, Jared Grindstaff and company do a tremendous job helping, but I would love to see a change in venues. I tell people from other states about our State tournament and after they’re done laughing and realize I’m serious, they are dumbfounded. 

[WrestlingGod]

My guess is VERY few if any at all. They almost all wait until they get home. That's a fact.

You GUESS is not a FACT.

 

Once again, these big tournaments, every team I know of showers. Because their coaches are sane.

[russianbear]

I hear what you guys are saying and Im not arguing but no one answered my question.  How many high schoolers shower at GP West?  Cleveland? Heck, for that matter how many shower at school after a regular season dual?   My guess is VERY few if any at all.  They almost all wait until they get home.  That's a fact. 

 

Personally, I think the no shower at the cow palace argument is very weak if that is the main reason we are going to use to convince a change.  I think the atmosphere there leaves a TON to be desired compared to what we see in other states so that should be the main focus. 

Matt 73557, first off, I respect your opinion. Secondly, it's irrelevant (but I agree coaches should make the kids shower) how many people shower after matches. Personally, I wrestled from 7 years old until post college. In high school I showered after ALMOST EVERY tournament, including (Indiana 79-84)sectionals, regionals, semi-state and state. That was me, I can't speak for others. But again, it doesn't matter.

 

I'm not sure if you watched the news cast that I posted earlier in the thread, but let me sum up what Mark Reeves said:

1) It doesn't stink enough to move it

2) There is no where else in the entire state of Tennessee that is large enough to hold it

3) No showers is a legitimate concern

 

If you know anything about liability and being sued, you'd realize that it WILL BE MOVED and it WILL BE MOVED this next year because of the skin disease issue, no shower facilities being available and the liability TSSAA is bringing upon itself.

Edited February 28, 2014 by russianbear

[MFerguson]

On the subject of wrestlers not having a place to change other than the public bathrooms at the AG Center...I didn't even realize this was an issue until I went to use the restroom and noticed a wrestler that had just finished wrestling for the night was in there stripping down to change into street clothes.  As we all know, wrestling tournament bathrooms begin to smell like death about 1 hour into the event.  Why should a competing wrestler have to change in a public bathroom with no room to move as well as breathe in the wrestling tournament bathroom smell of death?  To me, that is not right.  I know there are probably bigger issues at hand, but that is one detail that is not "state tournament" atmosphere.

[mat73557]

You GUESS is not a FACT.

 

Once again, these big tournaments, every team I know of showers. Because their coaches are sane.

 

Then I have met a lot of insane coaches.  Coaches, who were at GP West, did your team shower at Brentwood after wrestling?

 

Matt 73557, first off, I respect your opinion. Secondly, it's irrelevant (but I agree coaches should make the kids shower) how many people shower after matches. Personally, I wrestled from 7 years old until post college. In high school I showered after ALMOST EVERY tournament, including (Indiana 79-84)sectionals, regionals, semi-state and state. That was me, I can't speak for others. But again, it doesn't matter.

 

I'm not sure if you watched the news cast that I posted earlier in the thread, but let me sum up what Mark Reeves said:

1) It doesn't stink enough to move it

2) There is no where else in the entire state of Tennessee that is large enough to hold it

3) No showers is a legitimate concern

 

If you know anything about liability and being sued, you'd realize that it WILL BE MOVED and it WILL BE MOVED this next year because of the skin disease issue, no shower facilities being available and the liability TSSAA is bringing upon itself.

And I respect your opinion as well.  Since you have been on the front end of this movement, are there statistics on how many kids have gotten a skin infection/disease directly as a result of this facility?

 

I know plenty about being sued and in order successfully argue a case, you have to prove damages beyond a reasonable doubt.  Who has skin disease as a direct result of the venue?  Is there one verifiable case?

 

Recently the Kids AAU State was held in an Ag Center in Cookeville.  Were there skin diseases directly attributed to the use of that facility as well? 

 

You all can argue all you want with me, but that is the argument you better be prepared to fight if skin/disease and showers are your battle cry.  So far, I am not hearing a lot of compelling reason if I am the TSSAA.

 

Now with all that said, I am FOR a different venue, but its going to cost money.  Someone else is going to have to pay that money besides me and you.  If you want someone else like the TSSAA or perhaps the State of Tennessee to cover those costs, I think we should focus on the pomp and circumstance and the total experience for our youth.  I think that should be the issue on top of the list.  Perhaps we should send the Governor pictures of the venues in use in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, etc.  (has anyone made a list?)  The health benefits (and I am sure there are some) should be below that.

 

JMHO....Bash away.

Edited February 28, 2014 by mat73557

[russianbear]

"Now with all that said, I am FOR a different venue, but its going to cost money.  Someone else is going to have to pay that money besides me and you.  If you want someone else like the TSSAA or perhaps the State of Tennessee to cover those costs, I think we should focus on the pomp and circumstance and the total experience for our youth.  I think that should be the issue on top of the list.  Perhaps we should send the Governor pictures of the venues in use in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, etc.  (has anyone made a list?)  The health benefits (and I am sure there are some) should be below that."

 

We agree. I'm all about finding common ground. I just found out that Mark Reeves actually reached out to Bud Hennebaul (the architect of the Georgia State Tournament) a couple of years back to find ways to improve the event. Unfortunately they never got together. But Bud just informed me that he is going to make an effort to contact him. Number 1 (of course) would be to change the venue. On this I think just about everyone agrees. Bud argued with Georgia that better venue equals better attendance. They were in the red for years and for the first year of hosting under one roof in the Gwinette Center. They've been in the black since - this includes offsetting the money they lose from the state duals. 

 

I'm not a fund raiser or an event planner. But I do have a few ideas. #1 the TSSAA currently requires $10 per athlete as a weight management fee. I propose making it $15. There's an extra 20K right away. I don't think too many coaches would have an issue with that if it was earmarked as a "state venue" fee. Other possibilities are endless.

Edited February 28, 2014 by russianbear

[CoachKramer]

"Now with all that said, I am FOR a different venue, but its going to cost money.  Someone else is going to have to pay that money besides me and you.  If you want someone else like the TSSAA or perhaps the State of Tennessee to cover those costs, I think we should focus on the pomp and circumstance and the total experience for our youth.  I think that should be the issue on top of the list.  Perhaps we should send the Governor pictures of the venues in use in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, etc.  (has anyone made a list?)  The health benefits (and I am sure there are some) should be below that."

 

We agree. I'm all about finding common ground. I just found out that Mark Reeves actually reached out to Bud Hennebaul (the architect of the Georgia State Tournament) a couple of years back to find ways to improve the event. Unfortunately they never got together. But Bud just informed me that he is going to make an effort to contact him. Number 1 (of course) would be to change the venue. On this I think just about everyone agrees. Bud argued with Georgia that better venue equals better attendance. They were in the red for years and for the first year of hosting under one roof in the Gwinette Center. They've been in the black since - this includes offsetting the money they lose from the state duals. 

 

I'm not a fund raiser or an event planner. But I do have a few ideas. #1 the TSSAA currently requires $10 per athlete as a weight management fee. I propose making it $15. There's an extra 20K right away. I don't think too many coaches would have an issue with that if it was earmarked as a "state venue" fee. Other possibilities are endless.

the problem with raising the fee from $10 to $15 is that your asking the bigger teams 45+ to pay a whole lot more than a small team of lets say 15- 20 kids. A team of 45 kids will pay $225 more with the increase and a team of lets say 20 will pay an extra $100. and just because a team has more kids doesnt mean they have more money. I dont know about the other schools but we do not get a penny as far as a season budget from our school anything we get we raise ourselves. $225 is 1 or 2 more tournament fees .

Id be all for a flat fee for each team to donate for the cause. but i dont want to pay 2+ times more than some other schools.

[russianbear]

I see your point Coach Kramer. Just an idea. To whom much is given, much is required. Of course I'd argue you have more kids at the state tournament. A good problem to have 

[Franknbeans]

 I propose making it $15. There's an extra 20K right away. I don't think too many coaches would have an issue with that if it was earmarked as a "state venue" fee. Other possibilities are endless.

 

I  had to laugh at this one. Aren't you the one a few years ago  that had to beg the State coaches for money so your team could come to the state tournament?

[russianbear]

Yes, Franknbeans, that was me. Actually it was an incredible testimony to the generosity of the wrestling community. There were alumni, other coaches, referees, people I didn't know unaffiliated with our school and kids and anonymous donors that gave to the cause. God was, is and will forever be good.

 

I would have paid for all myself if I could have afforded it and I would pay for a decent facility if I could afford to. 

 

What I posted was an idea. It would cost our team $75. What is your idea?

 

BTW, having the state tournament in a free facility in no way reduces the cost for a team to compete in the state tournament (unless of course you implement the idea of a $15 weight management fee as opposed to $10).

Edited March 1, 2014 by russianbear