Pin-TN rankings

[cobrakid8]

22 minutes ago, Sommers said:

I would love to see state champion matches from 10-20 years ago vs the last 5 years.

That would be fun to see.

Think about it... 

Bruno Reagan down to Jordan Leen to Matt Sweeten to Zac Watson etc. vs today 

I do think those of 20 or so years ago would probably still win the titles today. However, I don’t think those of 40 or more years ago would be anywhere close. I think the amount of programs today is pretty close to what it was 20 years ago, slight growth due to new schools being built and what not but even those schools are having a hard time feeling up rosters. You can see some of our top wrestlers from 20-15 years ago now with Ward and Leen and they roll with some of their college kids and do well for as old as they are LOL. 
 

it was funny when I would talk to Jabo he always said his best weapon was his fingertips. He would do push-ups on them everyday and he said it was because if he could even get a fingertip on your leg when he shot he was going to take you down. However he said between the speed of the guys(15 years or so ago) and the strength and nutrition plans these guys were on made what they did with rubber suits as childs play. Those weight cuts were brutal while today’s rules don’t allow that and your wrestler is more at full strength. It’s always hard to compare greats from different eras!

[mat73557]

Overall wrestling in TN is way better today than it was 15-20 years ago.  The reason we are so much better is simply that we have more kids wrestling, and more kids competing for state medals.

When the big school small school split happened, everyone complained about things being watered down and for a time, they were right, but look what happened.  Now, you have schools like Greenville, Signal Mountain and Pigeon Forge with a ton of hammers who would beat up on any AAA kids.  

I know most of you purists will have a hard time admitting it, but face it......more divisions has helped overall.  I know you don't get to see the Ultimate Warrior match that so many drool about, but one division in TN will drive kids away from the sport.

In today's society where kids are so much more 'sheltered' than we were, you have to be able to have little Johnny have a shot at going to state.  (A form of instant gratification if you will)  If you want to see who is the very best in TN, follow them at the national tournaments they go to.  It's easy to do now days.  

I think we need more kids in the state tournament.  Not less.  And we need to find a way to have it in a comparable arena to what Georgia or Alabama does.  That is what kids want.  And this is for the kids after all.

I suggest that we start to push back because the rumors are that there is a permanent trimming in mind.  

[cobrakid8]

48 minutes ago, mat73557 said:

Overall wrestling in TN is way better today than it was 15-20 years ago.  The reason we are so much better is simply that we have more kids wrestling, and more kids competing for state medals.

When the big school small school split happened, everyone complained about things being watered down and for a time, they were right, but look what happened.  Now, you have schools like Greenville, Signal Mountain and Pigeon Forge with a ton of hammers who would beat up on any AAA kids.  

I know most of you purists will have a hard time admitting it, but face it......more divisions has helped overall.  I know you don't get to see the Ultimate Warrior match that so many drool about, but one division in TN will drive kids away from the sport.

In today's society where kids are so much more 'sheltered' than we were, you have to be able to have little Johnny have a shot at going to state.  (A form of instant gratification if you will)  If you want to see who is the very best in TN, follow them at the national tournaments they go to.  It's easy to do now days.  

I think we need more kids in the state tournament.  Not less.  And we need to find a way to have it in a comparable arena to what Georgia or Alabama does.  That is what kids want.  And this is for the kids after all.

I suggest that we start to push back because the rumors are that there is a permanent trimming in mind.  

Pretty sure you are wrong on the participation part of all of this. More divisions hasn’t helped bring kids in. Now maybe it brings more kids in that get a medal but it didn’t grow the sport as it was said to do. Now we do I think have more schools now but that’s because there has been a big population growth in TN especially in the Nashville area. But again it hasn’t helped the numbers per say with the actual numbers of wrestlers. 
 

As far as better wrestlers now compared to 15-20. Besides Chittum there’s not a soul in TN(that actually wrestles here on a TN team not another state) that would hang with Simpson and Leen, sorry if you think different let’s see how they do in college because these guys were Hammers in high school that went on to do big things in the NCAA’s. Same with RIP Matt Keller, Kevin Ward, Matt Sweeton, Rusty Blackmon, Raymond Dunning and Kyle James if not for mental health issues might have been an Olympic level wrestler from TN. I’ve been inside wrestling rooms since mid 1990’s and the kids today aren’t what those guys were. It’s why it’s been how long since we have had a TN kid step up onto one of the 1st or 2nd place steps at the NCAA tourney?

also not sure how I forgot about Nick Marable who is also in that 15 year window. 2 time TN champ, 2 time NCAA AA and national team member. 

I do have hope that the Chittums, Rollers of the world solve this issue, however TN has a long ways to go to be considered even as a good state for top notch wrestlers because at the end of the day the results have to show in the NCAA tourney, until that point you can go to national level tourneys all you want, at the end of the day they either end up as NCAA champions or Olympian’s or both. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by cobrakid8

[Bump11]

2 hours ago, Sommers said:

I would love to see state champion matches from 10-20 years ago vs the last 5 years.

That would be fun to see.

Think about it... 

Bruno Reagan down to Jordan Leen to Matt Sweeten to Zac Watson etc. vs today 

I’ve always wanted to see prime bruno vs prime kramer. 

[Greenhorn]

There’s a lot of drive and work going on in Tn a lot more than some are aware of some great coaches moved to Tn kids are getting on board we just need more athletes and the right parents ! There are some studs that can compete with anyone ! Sometimes we only see the ones we wanna see coaches from Nashville to Johnson city communicating working all yr I’m excited for the near future of the sport! To heck with TSSAA that’s all some of you see  I see kids throttle kids that are ranked at the top of these pin Tn rankings another joke! I’d love to see coaches and kids getting together more and more 

[cobrakid8]

7 hours ago, Bump11 said:

I’ve always wanted to see prime bruno vs prime kramer. 

Shoot I would rather see a Scott Wells vs Kramer lol. Wells was one of the top heavys in the country before moving here and instead chose D1 football at UT. Dude was an absolute stud and a huge athlete. 

[cbg]

2 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

Shoot I would rather see a Scott Wells vs Kramer lol. Wells was one of the top heavys in the country before moving here and instead chose D1 football at UT. Dude was an absolute stud and a huge athlete. 

Scott Wells (Brentwood Academy) and Bubba Miller (Brentwood Academy) may be the best two HW ever in Tennessee.  They were both great athletes that could move.  Their coach the late Ray Dalton told me that Wells was the better wrestler but that Miller was the better athlete and they were both super competitive athletes.  Both went on to have very successful football careers at The University of Tennessee and the NFL.

[durdon]

3 hours ago, cbg said:

Scott Wells (Brentwood Academy) and Bubba Miller (Brentwood Academy) may be the best two HW ever in Tennessee.  They were both great athletes that could move.  Their coach the late Ray Dalton told me that Wells was the better wrestler but that Miller was the better athlete and they were both super competitive athletes.  Both went on to have very successful football careers at The University of Tennessee and the NFL.

James Howard while granted is hurt this year was a 2 time Fargo 3rd as a first year cadet and he placed 3rd at Beast and won Cheesehead.  He is currently ranked in the top Ten in the country in all 4 polls even though he is hurt. 

He already has football offers from Ga , UT, Bama, etc.  

He is one of the best Heavyweight this state has produced and he only wrestled 1 year in High School.  

Edited February 13, 2021 by durdon

[dontstopbelieving]

1 hour ago, durdon said:

James Howard while granted is hurt this year was a 2 time Fargo 3rd as a first year cadet and he placed 3rd at Beast and won Cheesehead.  He is currently ranked in the top Ten in the country in all 4 polls even though he is hurt. 

He already has football offers from Ga , UT, Bama, etc.  

He is one of the best Heavyweight this state has produced and he only wrestled 1 year in High School.  

He wrestled heavyweight as an 8th grader at east Hamilton and made it to the blood rounds in big school.

[cobrakid8]

19 minutes ago, dontstopbelieving said:

He wrestled heavyweight as an 8th grader at east Hamilton and made it to the blood rounds in big school.

Yes, he got stuck by Kramer first round and went on to beat Jamil Hughes which was a decent wrestler before getting beat by Coppenger of Heritage in blood round 6-5 with Coppenger placing 5th. Very good wrestler for sure and still has some time to get better.  

 

However Scott I still don't think he wouldn't have anything for Wells(Bubba I cannot believe I forgot about). Wells was I think ranked 2 or 3 in the nation as a senior and came from Pennsylvania with his family who were preachers. While I have watched all 3 wrestle I still think Wells gets by Howard at this point. However Howard still has time and at the end I think it would be extremely close between them. You have to remember TN kids just didn't travel as much back at that time like they do now. Wells got known because he was good up in PA before moving here or he might not have been rated if at all. It's like the 2-3 star kids in football that end up amazing as the year just didn't run the circuit to get recruited like the others at the end they proved their worth on the field. 

 

Heres a few good old links on Scott and even Bubba

http://www.williamsonherald.com/sports/brentwood-academy-s-wells-enjoying-added-family-time-recalls-nfl-career/article_97fb5320-8aeb-11ea-85a8-87ce50be9310.html

 

 

[Sommers]

One of the highlights of TN wrestling was Marable's breaking one if the great ones', (what was it?), 84 match winning streak a few years ago.

TN wrestling has never been as deep as today. I love that small schools can whip schools 3-4x's their size.

We do need more hardware from out of state, i.e, Just 5 hours away, there at that Super 32.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Sommers

[cobrakid8]

6 minutes ago, Sommers said:

One of the highlights of TN wrestling Marable's breaking the great one's, what was it, 84 winning streak a few years ago.

Burroughs 69 match win streak in 2014. We haven't had any guys comes out the last few years anywhere as accomplished as those guys. Leen a Natty, Simpson 3 time AA, Marable multi time AA and very good in international competitions, all of those guys graduated 15 or plus years ago. I mean we have had some great highly decorated kids come out of TN last few years and do nothing in NCAA and/or national team wise. Not sure why that is, but looking at it seems to me these big time out of season tourneys this kids go to and place or win are not as meaningful as they used to be or these kids are burning out by the time they get to college and never reach their full potential.