Shot clock

[SportsWestTN]

22 minutes ago, pioneer42 said:

It actually works in Gibson County’s favor a lot playing slow because as a rule we have good post and play solid defense but I personally can’t stand it. Westview and Gleason refuse to play fast and I think both coaches are good one’s, but to this day that is always talked about at the coffee shop why they play slow.Westview has had some serious talent go through there the last 10-12 years. 

Playing slow leads for very little margin for error. Less possessions means your mistakes get amplified. Dangerous game to play.

[BallIsLife1]

Girls Basketball is already boring and then you add the teams that play slow and want low scoring. I don't think it will be implemented in TN. Too many teams would get exposed.

[pioneer42]

8 hours ago, SportsWestTN said:

Playing slow leads for very little margin for error. Less possessions means your mistakes get amplified. Dangerous game to play.

Yep. Don’t understand it. Hard to play against a press when your team don’t press, limited possessions, almost eliminates transition offense......

[TryNotToSuck]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:08 AM, pioneer42 said:

Who is going to pay for the clocks?? I am for a 45 second clock or 40.

If schools are installing turf fields for their football stadiums and indoor batting cages for their baseball/softball season to use during the winter months, then I am positive they can afford a shot clock. Who will operate the shot clock, I would assume an official that calls the JV game will stay and operate a shot clock. From what I've heard, basketball officials are as "short" when it comes to officiating compared to other sports throughout the state. 

It's a doable thing, I think we're overreacting with the amount of questions and stuff. If a H.S. runs a regular offseason, it shouldn't take over 35 seconds. That's just me. But I never kept track of that even though I might do that this upcoming season. 

I'll never forget when Greenfield stalled the game last year in the region tournament because Darby was in foul trouble. No one paid $5-8 dollars of admission to watch a team hold a ball for a minute. I'm glad we're at this point.

[SportsWestTN]

9 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

If schools are installing turf fields for their football stadiums and indoor batting cages for their baseball/softball season to use during the winter months, then I am positive they can afford a shot clock. Who will operate the shot clock, I would assume an official that calls the JV game will stay and operate a shot clock. From what I've heard, basketball officials are as "short" when it comes to officiating compared to other sports throughout the state. 

It's a doable thing, I think we're overreacting with the amount of questions and stuff. If a H.S. runs a regular offseason, it shouldn't take over 35 seconds. That's just me. But I never kept track of that even though I might do that this upcoming season. 

I'll never forget when Greenfield stalled the game last year in the region tournament because Darby was in foul trouble. No one paid $5-8 dollars of admission to watch a team hold a ball for a minute. I'm glad we're at this point.

Everywhere Ive been the JV officials are the ones that call the varsity game as well. You are correct that there is enough money available to pay someone (at most places) but the complaint is they wont want to have to pay someone to do it. That isnt where they want to spend their money. In the end it will mainly come down to if they want the shot clock or not. Money will just be the excuse.

[CoachAnderson]

I was a HS varsity assistant pre/post shot clock implementation In WA.

There were fans/coaches/AD’s, etc. that didn’t want it and there were those that did. Since implementation there have been ZERO games were canceled, rescheduled or simply not played because schools lacked the funds for a clock or an operator. Was there a learning curve, of course! Will there be mistakes, yes! Heck, I see seasoned clock operators make mistakes in HUGE games every year since I’ve been coaching HS (2001).

Funny, it’s always about “what’s best for the kids” until it’s not conducive for a HC’s philosophy or a parents schedule (and they have to volunteer for a 9th grade game).
 

If every boy & girl in the basketball program raise $25-30 clocks can be purchased. For those that can’t raise $25, I’m sure there’s a teammate that can raise $50-100. Additionally, I’m confident TSSAA will have a contract (or present options) that will offer reasonable prices w/install.  

Coaches, I promise...upsets will still happen! And the same 8 teams that should be in the state tournament will be there. If your team finishes 7-20 w/a clock, you would’ve gone 9-18 w/o a clock at best and still lost vs the #1 seed in the district opener. LMAO

[pioneer42]

12 hours ago, CoachAnderson said:

I was a HS varsity assistant pre/post shot clock implementation In WA.

There were fans/coaches/AD’s, etc. that didn’t want it and there were those that did. Since implementation there have been ZERO games were canceled, rescheduled or simply not played because schools lacked the funds for a clock or an operator. Was there a learning curve, of course! Will there be mistakes, yes! Heck, I see seasoned clock operators make mistakes in HUGE games every year since I’ve been coaching HS (2001).

Funny, it’s always about “what’s best for the kids” until it’s not conducive for a HC’s philosophy or a parents schedule (and they have to volunteer for a 9th grade game).
 

If every boy & girl in the basketball program raise $25-30 clocks can be purchased. For those that can’t raise $25, I’m sure there’s a teammate that can raise $50-100. Additionally, I’m confident TSSAA will have a contract (or present options) that will offer reasonable prices w/install.  

Coaches, I promise...upsets will still happen! And the same 8 teams that should be in the state tournament will be there. If your team finishes 7-20 w/a clock, you would’ve gone 9-18 w/o a clock at best and still lost vs the #1 seed in the district opener. LMAO

Teams love to slow it down against Gibson County. Union City and Peabody done it the last two years, Gleason done it twice in the last three years and I expect Martin to do it this year. Like SportsWestTN said, the margin of error is so small playing slow. How many times has a team that effectively presses lose to a team that don’t press and plays slow?? And in HS girls basketball it is extremely hard to play slow and stall the ball because as a rule they don’t handle pressure well enough. Shot clock would be a good thing. My vote is a 45 second clock or a 40.

Edited May 23, 2021 by pioneer42

[tradertwo]

I'm going with the seemingly unpopular opinion of no clock. Not using any excuses like money for the clocks, money for the operators, or finding folks to run them. I see the addition of a clock as the removal of a tactical option for the coaches. Each team has the option of any defense they choose to play, and any offense they choose to run as it stands...to force a shot within any time frame would effectively eliminate that. The NBA (used to be a huge fan...hate it now) has restrictions against playing zone defense...would that be the next popular move? If you (as a coach) want the game speed increased, pressure the ball unless you figure to give up defensive position. Everyone has fallen in love with the "big" play, such as dunks and  three's, homeruns, Hail Mary bombs, and the run and gun style of play...I miss the tactical precision offenses that make the hardest things in sports look easy...guess I'm just too old to fall in line with popular trends.

[pioneer42]

1 hour ago, tradertwo said:

I'm going with the seemingly unpopular opinion of no clock. Not using any excuses like money for the clocks, money for the operators, or finding folks to run them. I see the addition of a clock as the removal of a tactical option for the coaches. Each team has the option of any defense they choose to play, and any offense they choose to run as it stands...to force a shot within any time frame would effectively eliminate that. The NBA (used to be a huge fan...hate it now) has restrictions against playing zone defense...would that be the next popular move? If you (as a coach) want the game speed increased, pressure the ball unless you figure to give up defensive position. Everyone has fallen in love with the "big" play, such as dunks and  three's, homeruns, Hail Mary bombs, and the run and gun style of play...I miss the tactical precision offenses that make the hardest things in sports look easy...guess I'm just too old to fall in line with popular trends.

I won’t complain either way. Got to hit teams in the mouth and play either way. Won’t never have to worry about us playing slow though. 

[CoachAnderson]

3 hours ago, tradertwo said:

I'm going with the seemingly unpopular opinion of no clock. Not using any excuses like money for the clocks, money for the operators, or finding folks to run them. I see the addition of a clock as the removal of a tactical option for the coaches. Each team has the option of any defense they choose to play, and any offense they choose to run as it stands...to force a shot within any time frame would effectively eliminate that. The NBA (used to be a huge fan...hate it now) has restrictions against playing zone defense...would that be the next popular move? If you (as a coach) want the game speed increased, pressure the ball unless you figure to give up defensive position. Everyone has fallen in love with the "big" play, such as dunks and  three's, homeruns, Hail Mary bombs, and the run and gun style of play...I miss the tactical precision offenses that make the hardest things in sports look easy...guess I'm just too old to fall in line with popular trends.

Agree on loss of interest in the NBA. Too many games, games are too long, too many commercials. Absolutely HATE the timeout and advance the ball rule!! When the Sonics left Seattle for OKC I lost my remaining interest.
 

Anti shot clock due to style of play is IMO a “coach centered” and “fan centered” reason. As a coach I believe it’s my job to maximize each players potential (as well as my teams) and prepare them to play at the next level. Playing without a shot clock does not do that. 

Besides, the shot clock isn’t new! NBA - 1954, FIBA - 1956, ABA - 1967, PBA - 1975, NCAA - 1985 (Women’s - 1970).

With a shot clock, zone defense (full and 1/2 court) will IMO be more effective and maybe (JUST MAYBE) American players will learn how to out play their international counterparts (with improved passing, catching, shooting, moving without the ball, etc.) and not just out athlete them.

Thanks for the discussion! 

[tradertwo]

1 minute ago, CoachAnderson said:

Agree on loss of interest in the NBA. Too many games, games are too long, too many commercials. Absolutely HATE the timeout and advance the ball rule!! When the Sonics left Seattle for OKC I lost my remaining interest.
 

Anti shot clock due to style of play is IMO a “coach centered” and “fan centered” reason. As a coach I believe it’s my job to maximize each players potential (as well as my teams) and prepare them to play at the next level. Playing without a shot clock does not do that. 

Besides, the shot clock isn’t new! NBA - 1954, FIBA - 1956, ABA - 1967, PBA - 1975, NCAA - 1985 (Women’s - 1970).

With a shot clock, zone defense (full and 1/2 court) will IMO be more effective and maybe (JUST MAYBE) American players will learn how to out play their international counterparts (with improved passing, catching, shooting, moving without the ball, etc.) and not just out athlete them.

Thanks for the discussion! 

Some good points, but I believe that the trend of "out athlete them" is the thinking for wanting a shot clock. Basketball IQ is becoming scarce in favor of run faster and jump higher type kids. 

[CoachAnderson]

Just now, tradertwo said:

Some good points, but I believe that the trend of "out athlete them" is the thinking for wanting a shot clock. Basketball IQ is becoming scarce in favor of run faster and jump higher type kids. 

I’ve coached teams in the state tournament in Puerto Rico, WA, Hawaii, NC and TN and never had the guys to out athlete anyone. We simply lost to better teams...or at least teams that played better that night. 
With a shot clock and some talent I believe I can beat anybody as no lead is safe. (Holding the ball is difficult, beating a team holding the ball with 2-3 skilled guards is nearly impossible, even with good M2M defenders).
An example is Franklin (boys) spreading the floor with a lead vs a well coached and talented Brentwood team....the Bruins gave up layups. (Franklin boys were 12-3 vs Brentwood the last 4 years).