Football Education

[tradertwo]

3 hours ago, STARSNBARS said:

tt hit shore iz goodur when'st thays sumbodee onn hear thait cain rite and thaink like me.....

Mah grampaws kin come frum up 'roun yore neck a tha woods.

[rebelwoman87]

38 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

Mah grampaws kin come frum up 'roun yore neck a tha woods.

Maryville or Alinwick?

[tradertwo]

1 hour ago, rebelwoman87 said:

Maryville or Alinwick?

Further East...never got a "town", just that he remembered coming from North Carolina as a child in a wagon.

[strongx]

I have never paid that much attention to other teams, but what defense do most high school teams line up in? 

[coachspanky]

I think most teams went to the 3-4 to stop the spread. My issues are that:

1. there aren't enough dudes on the LOS

2. there aren't enough dudes in "the box"

3. when the other team gets inside the 20 and especially inside the 15, 4 DBs is a waste-get one of the safeties out and roll in another lineman/LB

4. Unless you got Reggie White, John Henderson and Vince Woolfork as your 3-it ain't gonna work against the run!

I agree with Stars-OR ran the same D but their LB's were so active-they were wither coming or showing a blitz which makes the O-line have to account for them at the LOS. What's the point of lining the LB's back at 5 yards? They aren't doing jack in pass defense anyway-except dropping into zone. They definitely aint getting down hill!!! If you watch the SEC and NFL D's that run 3-4 they most always have at least 5 if not 6 dudes on the LOS. Football ain't hard it's just a numbers game.................

[strongx]

5 hours ago, coachspanky said:

I think most teams went to the 3-4 to stop the spread. My issues are that:

1. there aren't enough dudes on the LOS

2. there aren't enough dudes in "the box"

3. when the other team gets inside the 20 and especially inside the 15, 4 DBs is a waste-get one of the safeties out and roll in another lineman/LB

4. Unless you got Reggie White, John Henderson and Vince Woolfork as your 3-it ain't gonna work against the run!

I agree with Stars-OR ran the same D but their LB's were so active-they were wither coming or showing a blitz which makes the O-line have to account for them at the LOS. What's the point of lining the LB's back at 5 yards? They aren't doing jack in pass defense anyway-except dropping into zone. They definitely aint getting down hill!!! If you watch the SEC and NFL D's that run 3-4 they most always have at least 5 if not 6 dudes on the LOS. Football ain't hard it's just a numbers game.................

Thx Coach, that all makes sense. I remember when we went from 5 to 4 man front back in the day and we needed two stud tackles to stop the run. I guess going from 4 to 3 makes it more important.

[tradertwo]

10 hours ago, coachspanky said:

I think most teams went to the 3-4 to stop the spread. My issues are that:

1. there aren't enough dudes on the LOS

2. there aren't enough dudes in "the box"

3. when the other team gets inside the 20 and especially inside the 15, 4 DBs is a waste-get one of the safeties out and roll in another lineman/LB

4. Unless you got Reggie White, John Henderson and Vince Woolfork as your 3-it ain't gonna work against the run!

I agree with Stars-OR ran the same D but their LB's were so active-they were wither coming or showing a blitz which makes the O-line have to account for them at the LOS. What's the point of lining the LB's back at 5 yards? They aren't doing jack in pass defense anyway-except dropping into zone. They definitely aint getting down hill!!! If you watch the SEC and NFL D's that run 3-4 they most always have at least 5 if not 6 dudes on the LOS. Football ain't hard it's just a numbers game.................

Can't completely agree with you. 3-4 defense with disciplined linebackers (maintaining their gap responsibility) may not be quite as effective when you need to keep from giving a yard, but 1'st and 10 (or so) with adequate DB's, and I like the freedom to flow sideline to sideline better than the 4-3. Also depends a little on the offenses you frequently face, and a lot on the preference of the coaches and available personnel in the smaller classifications. Bottom line is if you sell it to the kids that it works, and know how to put kids in position to succeed, either one can look much better than the other in any given situation. Sort of like the sentiment about the offense Creasy ran at Trousdale... most "experts" said that it wouldn't work in 6A...not that it's the best or worst, just that Creasy knows it inside and out and the players have no doubt that it will work.

[coachspanky]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:44 PM, tradertwo said:

Can't completely agree with you. 3-4 defense with disciplined linebackers (maintaining their gap responsibility) may not be quite as effective when you need to keep from giving a yard, but 1'st and 10 (or so) with adequate DB's, and I like the freedom to flow sideline to sideline better than the 4-3. Also depends a little on the offenses you frequently face, and a lot on the preference of the coaches and available personnel in the smaller classifications. Bottom line is if you sell it to the kids that it works, and know how to put kids in position to succeed, either one can look much better than the other in any given situation. Sort of like the sentiment about the offense Creasy ran at Trousdale... most "experts" said that it wouldn't work in 6A...not that it's the best or worst, just that Creasy knows it inside and out and the players have no doubt that it will work.

The game is won and lost at the LOS. If you only have 3 dudes on the LOS, you're gonna get trucked! You're correct that attacking LB's can overcome the scheme. However, when the LB's stand at 5 yards from the LOS and don't get down hill, it's impossible to effectively stop the run. 

[FootballFan888]

Depends on various factors such as the personnel, coaching philosophy, and specific matchups. Here are some reasons a team might choose a 4-3 defense over a 3-4:
        Personnel: If a team has dominant and versatile defensive linemen, they might choose a 4-3 to maximize the use of that talent. The 4-3 requires defensive ends who can both rush the passer and play against the run, and defensive tackles who can clog running lanes and also generate interior pass rush.
        Simpler Assignments: Some believe the 4-3 can be simpler for players to learn, as the roles and responsibilities can be more straightforward, particularly for the linebackers.
        Pass Rush: With four defensive linemen, there’s a potential to generate a more consistent pass rush from the front four alone, allowing the seven other defenders to focus on coverage or other responsibilities.
        Stopping the Run: With four linemen at the line of scrimmage, the defense might be better positioned to stop power running plays, especially if they have strong and physically imposing linemen.
        Linebacker Coverage: The three linebackers in a 4-3 usually consist of two outside linebackers and a middle linebacker. If a team has linebackers who are adept in pass coverage, this formation allows them to drop back and cover more effectively.
        Familiarity and Tradition: Some teams and coaches stick with the 4-3 simply because it's what they know best and have the most experience coaching.
        Flexibility: While both formations are adaptable, the 4-3 offers certain flexibilities. For instance, one of the defensive ends can occasionally drop into coverage, creating a pseudo 3-4 look and confusing offenses.
That said, the 3-4 defense also has its own advantages and unique features. The choice between the two often comes down to the team's roster, the coaching staff's philosophy, and the specific challenges presented by the opposing offense.

[noonesfool]

One reason linebackers line up deeper today is because the back is much deeper than in the day. The good backs are given a hole number and maybe they will get there. They are creative. Your D front is not really looking to make the play but 3 men drawing 5 blocks. The studs will still make a play upfront.LB’s shuffle and go.

[PercyPeabody]

1 hour ago, coachspanky said:

The game is won and lost at the LOS. If you only have 3 dudes on the LOS, you're gonna get trucked! You're correct that attacking LB's can overcome the scheme. However, when the LB's stand at 5 yards from the LOS and don't get down hill, it's impossible to effectively stop the run. 

Excellent point! Back in 2011, I was coaching at a school that was blessed with NO size but had about 10 kids that would run downhill through a wall. We ended up being very successful in a 3-3 stack with 5 DBs or would substitute in more linebackers which in essence made it a 3-5 with only two corners and a safety. Lots of blitzing can come out of the "stack" but you have to know your assignments. As you mentioned, they must run downhill or it's going to be a long night! 

[coachspanky]

5 hours ago, noonesfool said:

One reason linebackers line up deeper today is because the back is much deeper than in the day. The good backs are given a hole number and maybe they will get there. They are creative. Your D front is not really looking to make the play but 3 men drawing 5 blocks. The studs will still make a play upfront.LB’s shuffle and go.

Totally disagree. Haven't seen any teams running I formation in years (except Freedom HS, Hickory NC-they ran smoke stack I) Most teams run some kinda of version of spread and the back lines up even with the QB and that's at 4 yards. Never seen any high school teams who's 3 man D-line could take on 5 blocks!