Basketbrawl

[pdover1776]

Saw the video of a parent flashing cash at the camera.  Seemed really dumb.

[BFL347]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:27 PM, gcapride said:

Unconfirmed dialogue overheard between Oakdale game administrator and Deputy Sheriff:

Admin: that ole boy is really letting Clyde’s boy have it tonight

Fife:  yep, somebody ought to get ahold of him

Admin: uh oh, Barney, look here! There goes Clyde walkin over there. He’ll shut him up!

Fife: yep, I’d say ole Clyde will dot those eyes if he don’t hush up!

Moments later, all heck breaks loose while the two stooges stand in the corner with their popcorn. 
 

I agree with you. This should’ve been taken care of before it got to the boiling point. 

lol making fun of those country folk, all while you had students in ku klux klan costumes. or preachers paying players.

Edited January 2 by BFL347

[ladykee]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:29 PM, cherokean said:

Did you have any flashbacks to Polk Co.? Wonder if anyone blow out the seat of their new pair of pants...haha

I sure did! Ha! That’s been over 30 years ago. I vividly recall the whole thing & the whitie tighties showing through. That cleared the whole bench, but one player. Coaches & all were diving in trying to pull guys off. Interestingly, I don’t recall anybody ejected nor anybody missing from the next game. There may have been nothing more than a stern warning & probation or something. I don’t recall anything else happening like that again until now. On the issue of ejections of fans, it seems to happen more in the last decade than ever before in the “old days”. I’m talking the 80s & 90s & prior. Funny thing is these same things were happening back then & rowdy fans yelling out were just as if not more in abundance then. The difference now compared to then was admins & officiating nipped things that needed nipped in the bud & if it was just yelling it went in one ear & out the other to most all involved. Officiators didn’t really react to crowd, players didn’t have a clue what was going on off the court, and those same players were being berated by student sections & hollered at by fans all game long. Players were taught to pay it no mind, if they even heard it. Most games were so packed nobody could really hear much to even know what was being yelled or at who anyways. Games these days are so quiet you can almost hear a pen drop so when that one or two are letting it fly, it stands out loud & clear. Refs are much softer these days in general & Ive seen them eject a mom with a toddler setting on her lap who yelled “Come on”! Just picked her out of a crowd of yells somehow & to this day nobody knows why. They must have heard something & just thought it was her. Made her leave the gym. All the while, completely oblivious to their lack of control on the court, the opposing home crowd’s student section berating & harassing our players, flipping birds across the court at the visiting bench & crowd, etc. Their reaction was all about their feelings. Showed no care for the tension on the court, and everything else going on. How simple to address with an AD they request them to address the fans & warn them to pipe her down while they themselves gain control of the court of play with a warning to both coaches/benches and players to pipe her down or there would be consequences. Just a pause/time out. Basically it’s their job to do just that. The AD takes their cue from officiators. If a ref says, remove them, they (AD or game site manager) by rule are to follow it whether they agree or not. The AD doesn’t need authority from officiators to remove or warn someone, but if told to by officiators to do it that trumps everything. The TSSAA officiators are top dawg. It’s too sad so many aren’t up to the task anymore. That would solve a lot of this stuff from happening. Unfortunately the only action a lot of them do take regarding anything off the court and even on the court is if it ruffles or hurts their feelings which is a big no no.  In this instance, yet again, adults actions & lack of actions led to young non adult players paying the price. Yes, many left the court, with a few going up into the stands. Yes, we can’t have that happening. I do wonder how many average teenage boys, with all the tension building up on the court, would have the reserve to just stand there & watch while their Dad, Grandpa, or other loved one is laid out in the stands with another on top & punches being thrown and a few other adults eventually coming in to either join or attempt to break it up to no avail while no one in authority seems to be coming. No officers, no game administrators, no authority whatsoever. I honestly doubt mine would have. I may be wrong, but I don’t know if I would have if it were my parent or kin. It’s a natural reaction to do something. This all happened so fast too. It’s just sad we expect the youth to react better than adults who are supposed to be in charge. TSSAA really needs to think about this & what their purpose is and get their rules in line, their officiators in line, the ADs in line, the coaches in line, etc. to take action & use some common sense in situations. I mean are the fines a cash cow for TSSAA or do they really hope this is an easy way to deter things? Is it too hard to crack a whip on solid officiating & training in how to de-escalate tension on the court with players/coaches? Same for ADs. Isn’t this one of the most important responsibilities of all involved? Maybe require a non Barney Fife type officer be at the games for assistance. Maybe negligence fines for authorities should rattle some people being paid in these positions to do their job or at least attempt to. This isn’t rocket science. But by all means let’s just keep putting the ultimate punishment on the youth, guilty or innocent. That sure seems to not be working. 

Edited January 6 by ladykee
Had more to say

[orngnblk]

10 hours ago, ladykee said:

I sure did! Ha! That’s been over 30 years ago. I vividly recall the whole thing & the whitie tighties showing through. That cleared the whole bench, but one player. Coaches & all were diving in trying to pull guys off. Interestingly, I don’t recall anybody ejected nor anybody missing from the next game. There may have been nothing more than a stern warning & probation or something. I don’t recall anything else happening like that again until now. On the issue of ejections of fans, it seems to happen more in the last decade than ever before in the “old days”. I’m talking the 80s & 90s & prior. Funny thing is these same things were happening back then & rowdy fans yelling out were just as if not more in abundance then. The difference now compared to then was admins & officiating nipped things that needed nipped in the bud & if it was just yelling it went in one ear & out the other to most all involved. Officiators didn’t really react to crowd, players didn’t have a clue what was going on off the court, and those same players were being berated by student sections & hollered at by fans all game long. Players were taught to pay it no mind, if they even heard it. Most games were so packed nobody could really hear much to even know what was being yelled or at who anyways. Games these days are so quiet you can almost hear a pen drop so when that one or two are letting it fly, it stands out loud & clear. Refs are much softer these days in general & Ive seen them eject a mom with a toddler setting on her lap who yelled “Come on”! Just picked her out of a crowd of yells somehow & to this day nobody knows why. They must have heard something & just thought it was her. Made her leave the gym. All the while, completely oblivious to their lack of control on the court, the opposing home crowd’s student section berating & harassing our players, flipping birds across the court at the visiting bench & crowd, etc. Their reaction was all about their feelings. Showed no care for the tension on the court, and everything else going on. How simple to address with an AD they request them to address the fans & warn them to pipe her down while they themselves gain control of the court of play with a warning to both coaches/benches and players to pipe her down or there would be consequences. Just a pause/time out. Basically it’s their job to do just that. The AD takes their cue from officiators. If a ref says, remove them, they (AD or game site manager) by rule are to follow it whether they agree or not. The AD doesn’t need authority from officiators to remove or warn someone, but if told to by officiators to do it that trumps everything. The TSSAA officiators are top dawg. It’s too sad so many aren’t up to the task anymore. That would solve a lot of this stuff from happening. Unfortunately the only action a lot of them do take regarding anything off the court and even on the court is if it ruffles or hurts their feelings which is a big no no.  In this instance, yet again, adults actions & lack of actions led to young non adult players paying the price. Yes, many left the court, with a few going up into the stands. Yes, we can’t have that happening. I do wonder how many average teenage boys, with all the tension building up on the court, would have the reserve to just stand there & watch while their Dad, Grandpa, or other loved one is laid out in the stands with another on top & punches being thrown and a few other adults eventually coming in to either join or attempt to break it up to no avail while no one in authority seems to be coming. No officers, no game administrators, no authority whatsoever. I honestly doubt mine would have. I may be wrong, but I don’t know if I would have if it were my parent or kin. It’s a natural reaction to do something. This all happened so fast too. It’s just sad we expect the youth to react better than adults who are supposed to be in charge. TSSAA really needs to think about this & what their purpose is and get their rules in line, their officiators in line, the ADs in line, the coaches in line, etc. to take action & use some common sense in situations. I mean are the fines a cash cow for TSSAA or do they really hope this is an easy way to deter things? Is it too hard to crack a whip on solid officiating & training in how to de-escalate tension on the court with players/coaches? Same for ADs. Isn’t this one of the most important responsibilities of all involved? Maybe require a non Barney Fife type officer be at the games for assistance. Maybe negligence fines for authorities should rattle some people being paid in these positions to do their job or at least attempt to. This isn’t rocket science. But by all means let’s just keep putting the ultimate punishment on the youth, guilty or innocent. That sure seems to not be working. 

Yep and that one player got a good talking to after the game by another player!Rules were different back then compared to now,if you leave the bench now you are automatically suspended.Back then all for one and one for all.Not saying that's the correct thing to do but it's what we or most of us lived by as team mates.That was a basketbrawl this wasn't no where close to that one.just sad that a fan started this one.We were going at it all night with Polk.Then my dad and Frog went to " talk " to the refs for letting it go on.LOL.I remember Coach McCollum looking and me and Thurmer and said LOOK you made me ruin my new pants!!I loved the way he coached tho thats why I wanted my son to play for him.He could coach our kind of ball.As far a discipline,we got a warning if it happened again we would  have no post season in any sport.(if you remember the Vonore football issue in 86 i think it was that's why we got that answer)

Edited January 6 by orngnblk

[tradertwo]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:03 PM, ladykee said:

I sure did! Ha! That’s been over 30 years ago. I vividly recall the whole thing & the whitie tighties showing through. That cleared the whole bench, but one player. Coaches & all were diving in trying to pull guys off. Interestingly, I don’t recall anybody ejected nor anybody missing from the next game. There may have been nothing more than a stern warning & probation or something. I don’t recall anything else happening like that again until now. On the issue of ejections of fans, it seems to happen more in the last decade than ever before in the “old days”. I’m talking the 80s & 90s & prior. Funny thing is these same things were happening back then & rowdy fans yelling out were just as if not more in abundance then. The difference now compared to then was admins & officiating nipped things that needed nipped in the bud & if it was just yelling it went in one ear & out the other to most all involved. Officiators didn’t really react to crowd, players didn’t have a clue what was going on off the court, and those same players were being berated by student sections & hollered at by fans all game long. Players were taught to pay it no mind, if they even heard it. Most games were so packed nobody could really hear much to even know what was being yelled or at who anyways. Games these days are so quiet you can almost hear a pen drop so when that one or two are letting it fly, it stands out loud & clear. Refs are much softer these days in general & Ive seen them eject a mom with a toddler setting on her lap who yelled “Come on”! Just picked her out of a crowd of yells somehow & to this day nobody knows why. They must have heard something & just thought it was her. Made her leave the gym. All the while, completely oblivious to their lack of control on the court, the opposing home crowd’s student section berating & harassing our players, flipping birds across the court at the visiting bench & crowd, etc. Their reaction was all about their feelings. Showed no care for the tension on the court, and everything else going on. How simple to address with an AD they request them to address the fans & warn them to pipe her down while they themselves gain control of the court of play with a warning to both coaches/benches and players to pipe her down or there would be consequences. Just a pause/time out. Basically it’s their job to do just that. The AD takes their cue from officiators. If a ref says, remove them, they (AD or game site manager) by rule are to follow it whether they agree or not. The AD doesn’t need authority from officiators to remove or warn someone, but if told to by officiators to do it that trumps everything. The TSSAA officiators are top dawg. It’s too sad so many aren’t up to the task anymore. That would solve a lot of this stuff from happening. Unfortunately the only action a lot of them do take regarding anything off the court and even on the court is if it ruffles or hurts their feelings which is a big no no.  In this instance, yet again, adults actions & lack of actions led to young non adult players paying the price. Yes, many left the court, with a few going up into the stands. Yes, we can’t have that happening. I do wonder how many average teenage boys, with all the tension building up on the court, would have the reserve to just stand there & watch while their Dad, Grandpa, or other loved one is laid out in the stands with another on top & punches being thrown and a few other adults eventually coming in to either join or attempt to break it up to no avail while no one in authority seems to be coming. No officers, no game administrators, no authority whatsoever. I honestly doubt mine would have. I may be wrong, but I don’t know if I would have if it were my parent or kin. It’s a natural reaction to do something. This all happened so fast too. It’s just sad we expect the youth to react better than adults who are supposed to be in charge. TSSAA really needs to think about this & what their purpose is and get their rules in line, their officiators in line, the ADs in line, the coaches in line, etc. to take action & use some common sense in situations. I mean are the fines a cash cow for TSSAA or do they really hope this is an easy way to deter things? Is it too hard to crack a whip on solid officiating & training in how to de-escalate tension on the court with players/coaches? Same for ADs. Isn’t this one of the most important responsibilities of all involved? Maybe require a non Barney Fife type officer be at the games for assistance. Maybe negligence fines for authorities should rattle some people being paid in these positions to do their job or at least attempt to. This isn’t rocket science. But by all means let’s just keep putting the ultimate punishment on the youth, guilty or innocent. That sure seems to not be working. 

I love this perspective! TSSAA's standard response to any situation is to punish those with the most to lose and the least amount of representation (the kids). Adult human beings ( three officials, game administrator, two head coaches & their assistants, and law enforcement) were in paid positions to ensure that proper conduct was maintained on the floor and in the stands. What disciplinary action or punishment have they received (other than team connections) for their inaction? I get that sometimes things happen that we can't account for nor control, but after reading some of these posts it's pretty clear that certain fan/s have behaved this way before, and the coaches and refs should have noticed building tension/friction. JMO, but it would have been pretty simple to have ejected the loudmouth or sat one or both kids that loudmouth was yelling about. Any combination of people who I listed could have ejected loudmouth, and any of the three refs or coaches should have addressed their player. I guess that it's just easier to do nothing, wait for someone else to do the right thing, and point fingers afterward.

[OICU812]

On 12/16/2023 at 11:11 AM, Dirtyt26 said:

If the refs and A.D Would of done there job none of this would've happened.  It would of been prevented in the 3rd period. But after a parent harrasing a kid on the court, a father had enuff. While the police officer and everybody in the gym seen a oakdale parent walk around the gym into the stands. Which should of been prevented, moments later the fight took place.  Too many idiots in one gym

Not the refs job to police the stands and the court... Admin's job. 

[team69]

On 1/6/2024 at 8:17 AM, orngnblk said:

Yep and that one player got a good talking to after the game by another player!Rules were different back then compared to now,if you leave the bench now you are automatically suspended.Back then all for one and one for all.Not saying that's the correct thing to do but it's what we or most of us lived by as team mates.That was a basketbrawl this wasn't no where close to that one.just sad that a fan started this one.We were going at it all night with Polk.Then my dad and Frog went to " talk " to the refs for letting it go on.LOL.I remember Coach McCollum looking and me and Thurmer and said LOOK you made me ruin my new pants!!I loved the way he coached tho thats why I wanted my son to play for him.He could coach our kind of ball.As far a discipline,we got a warning if it happened again we would  have no post season in any sport.(if you remember the Vonore football issue in 86 i think it was that's why we got that answer)

Speaking of Vonore… most of y’all wouldn’t believe what transpired in a scrimmage in1970. We took about 25 players and we were putting it on them pretty good. We had a couple of players different from them and it didn’t take long before it was on. Fans coming off the sidelines , Coaches going at it, it lasted about 15 minutes. They called the scrimmage then the best part was in the locker room afterwards when a couple of their players came in where we were dressing.  lol one guy had a pack of lucky strikes rolled up in his sleeves and all were smoking like nothing even happened. Never forget that. Went thru there last week to stop at Benton’s to get some Bacon and noticed the lake has changed that place since then.

Edited January 9 by team69

[orngnblk]

3 hours ago, team69 said:

Speaking of Vonore… most of y’all wouldn’t believe what transpired in a scrimmage in1970. We took about 25 players and we were putting it on them pretty good. We had a couple of players different from them and it didn’t take long before it was on. Fans coming off the sidelines , Coaches going at it, it lasted about 15 minutes. They called the scrimmage then the best part was in the locker room afterwards when a couple of their players came in where we were dressing.  lol one guy had a pack of lucky strikes rolled up in his sleeves and all were smoking like nothing even happened. Never forget that. Went thru there last week to stop at Benton’s to get some Bacon and noticed the lake has changed that place since then.

Nothing with Vonore would surprise us.lol.We were Bitter rivals at the time.Good story!!Bentons Bacon is something else too.

[tradertwo]

6 hours ago, OICU812 said:

Not the refs job to police the stands and the court... Admin's job. 

Point taken and you're technically right, but I'm guessing that you've seen a ref point out a fan and have them removed...right? In this situation a fan was reportedly yelling directly at and harassing what I presume to have been a minor, and in that situation I would expect that a ref would at some point have heard enough to act if no one else took the initiative. Better a game official than an opposing fan...we can all sit here and point fingers at how stupid and low-class it seems to fight at an athletic event, but in truth how many of us would sit by and let a grown man berate our son/grandson/ect... without doing something "stupid"? I can tell you that I've been to hundreds (maybe thousands) of games without embarrassing myself (too much...LOL!) or my school, but I can't tell you for sure what I would or wouldn't do in that exact situation.

[OICU812]

16 hours ago, tradertwo said:

Point taken and you're technically right, but I'm guessing that you've seen a ref point out a fan and have them removed...right? In this situation a fan was reportedly yelling directly at and harassing what I presume to have been a minor, and in that situation I would expect that a ref would at some point have heard enough to act if no one else took the initiative. Better a game official than an opposing fan...we can all sit here and point fingers at how stupid and low-class it seems to fight at an athletic event, but in truth how many of us would sit by and let a grown man berate our son/grandson/ect... without doing something "stupid"? I can tell you that I've been to hundreds (maybe thousands) of games without embarrassing myself (too much...LOL!) or my school, but I can't tell you for sure what I would or wouldn't do in that exact situation.

Point also taken, but if Dad had an issue with how someone was berating/yelling... or whatever they were doing, then Dad could also go to the admin... I'm not saying the ref couldn't have gone to the AD and had him removed, I'm just saying it's not the ref's job and blame shouldn't be placed on him for it. Dad could control his emotions and realize that guy is probably going to be a stupid jerk regardless if he goes over and knocks him out... But now Dad is in trouble...

Gyms can be loud. Not saying he did or didn't, but the ref might not have heard what the guy said. Focus might've been elsewhere. 

Not a great situation for anybody involved and it's ridiculous that we're anywhere near this kind of space in high school athletics. 

[Coalfan]

Saw the video the parent from Greenback made for Oakdale fans.  This guy needs help.  Something ain’t right.  

[Orangeslide]

Heard Oakdale lost their appeal to the TSSAA to lift the post ban.  Greenback chose not to appeal.  So District 3 will have a 3 team district tournament, and the winner of district 4 will receive a bye in the first round of the region tournament. This situation really sucks for the seniors and all players on both teams.  I’m not condoning this type of behavior but I wonder if the TSSAA would have dropped the hammer if this was larger schools, I would hope they would.  It’s amazing how adults actions led to this punishment for both schools and the administration at Oakdale should be ashamed of themselves. Just overall a failure on both schools.  Hope they learn a hard lesson and review their game management policies to never let this happen again.