Division I- Division II Split

[mtnrasslin]

HenryHanson-

 

It's interesting that you think the whole discussion about the split is about DII schools needing validation. What makes you think that McCallie, Father Ryan, Notre Dame or Baylor needs to have their programs validated. If there were a need for validation I think it would work equally both ways.

 

The fact is, and since you apparently wrestled I would think you would know this,compettion makes for better wrestlers. Unless you don't believe this, then it is logical to conclude that Tennessee high school wrestling would be made better if the best wrestlers in the state were wrestling each other regardless of DI or DII. You say it only matters in the state tournament but, of course, that is not the case. Bradley, and now unfortunaltely Cleveland, will not wrestle DII schools.

 

It is also interesting that you say this whole thing is about DII schools being able to say they are the best. It sounds as if you are conceding that DII programs are better. I doubt there are many Bradley or Soddy supporters who agree with this. Even a DII chump like me would doubt, had McCallie and Bradley squared off in a dual match this past year, that McCallie come out on top. Were this to happen, since it is apparently important to you, you would have a chance to do some of the finger wagging you claim that DII schools want to do.

 

By the way, I am curious. Does your weight add credibilty to your argument?

[countrypk]

I think he's actually looking for a match - as long as you didn't attend a DII school.

[PapaRaptor]

No Henry. I'm a DI coach.

[realsoccer]

countrypk. I think i'd give him a pass on wrestling but i bet you can take him in the mile. you'd have to make it cross country, the DOT gets mad when people leave foot prints in the pavement.

[sly]

If I remember correctly the article that was in the Chattanooga Times/FreePress the other day had indicated that Cleveland, Brainerd and now Bradley would not compete against DII schools in ANY sports during the regular season and that there may be other schools that will be following this policy as well.

[realsoccer]

Public school administrators' desire to segregate themselves athletically will do wonders for broad support of public schools. I'm trying to figure out the upside of antaganizing a group of citizens who, in general, have dispropotionately more influence in their communities. I'm sure Bradley and Cleveland will improve their collective wrestling records but there is a social cost.

[Edited by realsoccer on 4-12-03 12:47P]

[sly]

What are you talking about realsoccer? Please explain what it is you tried to say.

[realsoccer]

Seemed obvious to me. The more you p o private school parents, the less support you have for the important job of public schools - education. I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling for public education driving all over the state trying to find games and matches because a bunch of small minded and petty school administrators think "little Johnny" didn't win his share of games because life ain't fair.

[Edited by realsoccer on 4-12-03 12:52P]

[slingshot]

Why in the world would any public person be concerned about your lack of fuzzy feelings? Are the private folks concerned when you give scholarships to the best public athletes (financial aid, work study, whatever...)then demand that we compete against them and all of the other all stars you have accumulated from across the country. I found it interesting last week reading the Times article concerning two battling tennis players from McCallie and Baylor. One from Canada and the other from Zimbabwe. You guys even get to shop in other Countries!

 

Let's be truthful. The feeling seems to be that the "privates" want to seperate themselves from the "average" folks except when we can be of use to you. Most live in different neighborhoods, belong to different clubs, wear their hair and clothes differently (yes, I could absolutely pick out the boys from McCallie and Baylor in a line-up) and most importantly, send their children far from the evils of the "inferior" public education. Heck, even your first names are often seperatist. Visit the halls of Soddy or Red Bank and find these FIRST names: Coleman, Forrest, Thayer, Howell, Wells, Claytor, etc...the list goes on and on. The difference is that in the athletic arena, you find a need for the common man. Competition against your all-stars to validate their greatness.

 

This is America. Attend where you want. Belong to whatever you choose. Name your children anything you desire. But when you attempt to further your own cause at the expense of public schools, don't expect the publics to grin and thank you for it.

[ruleof867]

There is so much whining and accusation flinging in this thread and throughout a lot of the other threads about the Div I/II split. Somebody cheated at this, somebody said that, someone else says he won't ever wrestle the other division. So what!

 

Being a transplant from the north I can't believe so much time is wasted on this subject. There is no question that subtle recruiting goes on. I know at least in my son's case it occurred. When he first transferred to TN there were a couple of sly questions put to me about our choice of schools. He also told me he was approached. I have a feeling that we were being felt out about the school we chose. Who knows? Our explanation was that we liked the coach at his high school, so that ended that. He and I also set a goal to never lose to anyone from those schools. As a former Div I champion, he was able to make good on that goal. All of this doesn't matter one iota.

We can't stop this stuff coming from the few, so forget it.

 

Do you want TN wrestlers to get better. Then you should wrestle everyone you can irregardless of the division. It's that simple. If you don't wrestle comparable schools from the other division you do your kids an injustice. Every opportunity to wrestle a quality opponent is a chance to improve. BUT when you look at TN wrestling programs compared to the tougher states, I doubt that the wrestling in TN compared any better when there was only one division.

 

What you need are youth programs starting in the 1st grade as they do in the north and midwest. On weeknights one school's youth program can wrestle another local school. There need to be several open tournaments every weekend for the kids in grades 1-8. And this needs to begin in November and run to March. There should be organized district and state tournaments at the end of the season. A kid who starts at age 6 easily can get 500 matches under his belt before he reaches high school. Plain and simple that is why those other states are better.

 

If you want your wrestlers to be better quality then get off this board and get those youth programs going.

[Guest hipyou]

I agree that we need more youth wrestling, but how do we separate the publics and privates? Wouldn't want my first grader to have to wrestle some snotty nosed private school kid.

[slingshot]

Here we go with the True State Champion argument again. Every Champion in both divisions are true state champions. They each rose to the top in their respective State Tournaments and deserve their hard-fought victories. "True State Champion" is a term used by fans who want to see the best match-ups for their own entertainment. Do the State Champions in each football division play each other to get to this "truth"? How about Baseball? Basketball? I guess these kids are getting shorted by not having the chance to play the other division Champions, huh? No, I suspect that each hold their heads high and look at their accomplishment with great pride, as do their families and communities.

 

Or is it only about individual sports? Let's go to the world of tennis as I mentioned earlier. If DI and DII were together, the best player from Tennessee would probably never hold a trophy. Why? Because a private recruit from any number of states and at least two foreign countries could very possibly knock him off in the early rounds. Is this the "True Tennessee State Champion" that you're referring to? That TN State Championship medal will find it's way back home.....only that home is not in our State. It's in Zimbabwe or Canada or any number of other States. But one thing is for sure. The Fans could finally sleep well at night knowing who is the "True State Champion." Don't worry about the TN kid.....he'll get over it.

[Edited by slingshot on 4-12-03 10:15P]