Division I- Division II Split

[slingshot]

Sly, you've been around this thing from the beginning. It's as if someone just wrote a list of DII arguments and posted them on some mythical board in 1997. Since then, they have been used, re-used, re-worded and passed off as original. You're obviously a patient man and continue to fight the good fight, but trust me...you'll never get satisfaction. They only wait for your next words to use them as fuel for the endless rhetoric. This, of course will always be passed off as "for the good of the sport", for it is their battle-cry. And posts such as this, while true, will be bombarded with witty antagonism and characterized as "bad" for the sport. Funny, since the split, Tennessee has produced Phillip Simpson, Matt Keller, Darren McKnight, Rusty Blackmon, Waylon Lowe etc. Yep, that split is killing us.

[PUMMELKING]

slingshot,

i dont beileve it's killing our wrestlers, but more of coaches egos and parents attitute to not be able to say who has or has not beat whom!!!

[babybearmom]

man, guys. All I asked was a little clarification into an interesting rumor. I thought maybe because I followed wrestling closer than other sports that maybe I just didn't hear it all about the split. Now I still think that.

It can't be financial aid. DII doesn't give it, right?

And as for some of the powerhouse D I schools wrestling D II schools, for most of them it isn't happening anymore. They don't have much to gain, status wise. If you win, you're beating a smaller school, and you sure don't gain anything by losing.

[Guest hipyou]

Heck, I agree with slingshot. Because of the split we have produced great wrestlers. I'm sure those youth programs didn't help, or better coaching. In fact, I think we need to split more. DI A, AA, AAA, and DII A and AA. And no wrestling anyone not in your group. We could have 5 state champs per weight class, maybe 20-30 Undefeated wrestlers, man, we'd produce some great wrestlers that way. All the schools could have a few state champs, coaches would have nice records, couple more 4xers, life would be grand. Who's with me...

[slingshot]

So much sarcasm, so little point. If endless sarcasm was your point, congratulations, however where's the beef? My point is that some folks are trying to fix a product that isn't broken. If your point was to offend the "older" coaches, maybe you've done that as well. "Better coaching" I think you called it. To the best of my recollection, names such as Henry, Connell, Morgan, Simpson, Miller etc. have been around for well over 20 years and have been doing a great job. Who exactly are these younger, "better" coaches to which you are referring? Maybe they can help these old guys out.

[Guest hipyou]

Wake up sling. YOU made the claim the split produced these great wrestlers. I say we have these great wrestlers IN SPITE of the split. The old coaches do fine, but we are producing better wrestlers because of better coaching in the youth programs, and more of them (K-8). How many of the wrestlers you mentioned were raw freshman? You guys amaze me. How can a thinking man (maybe that's the problem) believe diluting the competition creates better wrestlers. You guys that don't want to wrestle the best because of some precieved advantage, DI or DII, are a bunch of wussies. "Oh, he is too good. It's unfair because he goes to a private school and is so much better than me." You won't hear a wrestler say that. Usually coaches, fans, parents. Especially coaches. On the same subject, man, I'd hate to be that big ole guy's kid. To hear him talk, public school kids are the unclean, poor, dregs of the earth. "Son, maybe if you were any count, one of them DII schools would a snatched you up. Guess you'll have to make do at this old run down public school." As a public school grad, I find his remarks offensive. Back in the day, we used to wipe the mat with DII back. You guys are embarrassing. Makes me realize how far apart the wrestlers are from the administrators. Keep the split, split more, whatever YOU think best. Just don't ask the kids. They would have it back in a second.

[Asylamer]

hipyou,I failed to find the inference in slingshot's post in reference to some of the outstanding crop of wrestlers to come along since the split that he felt that their emergence was because of the split. I read his point to be the same as your read on their emergence, that they achieved "IN SPITE of the split." It appears to me that he is calling attention that, to the contrary of the predictions that have been broadcast long and loud about how our sport is suffering or is going to suffer, wrestling is still producing.

 

And here I will throw in my own take. The scholastic sport overall has never been healthier in the state of Tennessee than it currently is. That is a statement of observation, not of analysis. If successes were analysized, we would probably find that they are the results of a variety of circumstances, not simplistic, single-shot courses, events, or actions.

[Edited by Asylamer on 4-16-03 2:19A]

 

[sly]

Good post Asylamer!

 

hipyou, you obviously didn't read slingshot's post like the rest of us. He clearly pointed out that since the split we have still "managed" to produced some of the best wrestlers in the history of Tennessee wrestling in spite of the split. I also agree with Asylamer that high school wrestling in Tennessee is healthier now than its ever been and will continue to get better due to better coaching and more youth programs. Just my opinion.

[tnmat]

Whoa!!! I left for a few days and didn't realize that this topic would bust open like it did! I do, however, still need to say something. (pardon me if I say something that has already been discussed, I haven't been able to read all the posts)

 

Earlier I asked another user of these boards if they thought that it was only DI people who were involved in splitting up sports in TN, or if DII people were also involved.

 

The reason that I asked this question was not to defend public schools, but rather to put a few things in perspective. I think everyone that views or posts on these boards needs to step outside their little world for a moment and see the big picture: IT WAS NOT ONLY THE OTHER GUY AT FAULT!

 

What do I mean by this? I mean, simply, that no one person or group of persons is responsible for the segregating of sports in Tennessee. First of all, it is not only the wrestling community's fault. Second, it is not only DI's fault... OR DII's. It is not only football's fault, or basketball's, or baseball's, or Brentwood Academy's, or Shelbyville's.

 

Notice, I didn't say that it wasn't anyone's fault at all (excuse me if I referred to your particular affiliation). What I was trying to get at earlier, and what I believe everyone needs to realize, is that we are ALL (except for one group) at fault!

 

At least in some way, some more than others, we are at fault for this disaster of a decision. DII (in general, please don't think that I'm pointing out any one particular school, or saying that no school was innocent of this offense) for not being willing to give up fin aid to their students, and for breaking rules before the split. DI for not being willing to let them, and for refusing to give them a second chance. Coaches for their involvement, parents for their lack of involvement. The TSSAA for being a staging grounds, and the Supreme Court for finalizing it.

 

I mean, honestly, not one person can definitively say that they had nothing to do with the split.

 

The only group of persons that are innocent of this is the athletes... and that is only because they are the victims, not the criminals.

 

People... I'm not pointing fingers... I'm only telling the truth... that we all are at fault. There is no doubt that this split has affected wrestling more than probably every other high school sport, and that is all the more reason to rise up and fight it! Not to back down.

 

Yeah... I'm done.

 

PS: I was referring to the TSSAA, not Ronnie Carter. He may represent the TSSAA, but I don't think he is an accurate example of their views sometimes. I think he is, however, our hope among the TSSAA ranks, though.

[slingshot]

Wussies?? Now we're name calling? Has this become personal hipyou? Assume this is a fear issue if you must, but Wussies?? Keep it coming. You're just one good post after another.

[fatkat]

Hey Mister....why you put your weight and height on your post?....that is weird.....it scared me though when I read how big you are.....I'm surely not gonna mess with you....I'm just a little ol Divison II chump.

 

Good Day

[Edited by fatkat on 4-16-03 6:30P]

 

[Guest hipyou]

Hi Asylamer and sly. To accomplish something "in spite of" implicitly implies that one overcame something or someone, i.e. "the split", to reach a goal. That is not how slingshot, or you for that matter, sly, feel. Or am I wrong and you feel the split is a bad thing? My read is that slingshot feels the split is a good thing and offers as proof Simpson, Keller, et. al.

I do agree with you guys that the wrestling in TN is as good as I have ever seen it. I attribute this to more and better youth programs, better coaching, and more travel for beeter competition. I think we would be even better unified.