Duals strategy

[texas23]

I am doing the math on the Bradley/Soddy Daisy championship match and it looks like (if I do the math correctly) that when Soddy does not put a wrestler out against Gibson, that they concede the championship. The 6 points at that time make it impossible for Soddy to come back, without a try.

 

Any answers to that strategy?

[CoachDelgado]

You did the math correctly. As to why, Coach Henry is the only one who can answer that question. Oif course I don't need to know the answer. Whatever the reason, if it is a good enough reason for him then that is all I need to know and it is good enough for me.

 

My thoughts are that Gipson is going to pin almost anyone he gets on the mat with. In their earlier dual, Gipson pinned Brandon Thurman in 1:38. I am not saying it was a concession by Coach Henry, but that is a big hill to climb. What happenned earlier might also factor in the decision. Bradley had defeated Franklin but Blackmon still wrestled at 171. He pinned the Franklin kid in less than two minutes but could not get up. He injured something, a hamstring or ankle, while pinning his opponent. At this point in the season, with regionals next week, why send out your guy on a beast like Gipson when it isn't totally necessary? (Yeah, yeah because the math says the dual isn't over)

Edited February 8, 2004 by CoachDelgado

[texas23]

Your a good solider coach. However, I wanted to hear a strategy that might shed some light into not going out and trying to win a state championship. I just would like to know what some thoughts were on that move. You provided not one ounce of insight except for support of the decision with blind faith.

 

Any insight from others?

Edited February 8, 2004 by texas23

[CHSCOACH]

If you know the guy is going to pin who ever you send out, sometimes it is better to forfeit the match. You give them the six points but you do not give them the momentum. Pins fire up a team, where forfeits even though they are worth the same do not.

 

This is just one reason a team may forfeit in a dual. This may have been in the game plan from the start and the plan fell apart earlier in the match. Much like my game plan fell apart against Soddy early in the match.

Edited February 8, 2004 by CHSCOACH

[CoachBruce]

without seeing the actual results and who had choice (who had to go to the table first), my only idea is that maybe Henry thought Logsdon would bump Quinn and everyone after him up a class.

 

then, the 160 is a double forfeit and there is still a chance (mathematically) to win.

[CoachGonyeaSHS]

It's all about momentum. I'm sure Quinn is one of Bradley's leaders and a consistant 6pts for the team. So if you allow them to score with a pin, it fires up the team and adds a lot of momentum. However, if you only give someone like Quinn a forfeit, the team is not allowed to build as much enthusiasm. This can sometimes really upset the plan a team had put forth. I don't think Coach Henry was wanting to give up those 6 points, he was hoping to take some from the next few matches.

 

This is just my opinion....

[texas23]

the momentum thing is interesting, but if you give up the chance to win to try and cut down on the momentum, what is the point? I would understand that strategy in the pre match planning, but when your down to your last bullet, that is another issue.

 

I wonder if Soddy had anyone to put out there, because a 6 point give sends up the white flag at that point in the match.

 

i amnot being critical of Coach H. , I am just trying to understand this one.

[cobrakid8]

texas, its not a hard point to grasp why SD gave up the points to Gibson. the match was over from that point on after the 152 match. if Thurman who was moved down gets any kind of a win there we have a better chance to get back some points and make some move towards a win. btu thurman lost a close match so why put a JV kid out there get pinned in less than 30 seconds and than get beat. coaches know when a match has been won or lost at that point. i mean bryant could have wrestled against letner after that forfeit if it was close. he pinned letner very quickly last time and than there was the forfeit at 189. i mean the match could have been totally different if SD had won the match at 215 by pin like last time and if Shawn could have won 275 after being a 171/189 lb but it didnt so the bullets had run out and there wasnt much else to do. math just doenst work with wrestling there is to many upsets and surprises. so Soddy had ran out of bullets way before having to forfeit to one of the best wrestlers in the state.

[best_of_the_west]

Yea, Coach Henry knew it was over. It would be horrible to put a JV kid out there against the best wrestler in the state at the biggest event in the state and say "Look Johnny, all you have to do is pin Quinn Gibson, and we'll still be in this thing." That's just a tremendous amount of pressure. Also, I think it's like when a golfer hits his put within an inch of the hole, and you know he's going to make the next one to win. You just give him the consession and move on. It's a gentlemanly sort of thing.

[BayouBear]

The score was 23-16 Bradley after the 145 match. In the previous Soddy-Bradley dual, Justin Spain had pinned Soddy's 152 (Hicks) and Gibson pinned Thurman. IMO Coach Henry considered these results and decided to put the Senior Thurman on the Freshman. The strategy was to hope for a pin to cancel out Gibson's probable pin at 160. (Soddy also had a JV weighed in at 160). If the strategy had worked, the score would have been 29-22 with two matches remaining. Coach Henry knew Blackmon was hobbling on a sprained ankle and and Campbell had beaten Cooper previously. In other words, it gave them a chance. When Spain beat Thurmon the Dual was essentially over. Mathematically, Soddy could have still won with 2 pins and a tech over Gibson, Blackmon and Cooper. I am sure Coach Henry realized that there was no one in the building that could have pinned or teched Gibson and certainly not the jv he had on his bench.

 

Steve Henry is a great coach and a special person. I didn't fully realize what he had done until I had time to sit down in the motel room last night and think it out. We may never know if his forfeit was a salute to Gibson, the 3 remaining wrestlers or to the Bradley team in general. In any case, it was a move that shows amazing class.

 

Coach Henry----you da man. Congrats, thank you and good luck to the Soddy Daisy Trojans.

Edited February 9, 2004 by BayouBear

[texas23]

cobarakid and botw,

 

 

so your saying that coach Henry was raising the white flag at that time?

 

It may be that way,,I really do not know. Here is my thoughts though:

 

There is zero chance of winning the State Championship if you do not try, period.

 

Cobra, your saying it is not a had point to grasp is not true. If you do not send out your guy, you know 100% what the outcome will be in regards to team points given up.

 

Let's take the UI example. Dan Gable goes out to complete an undefeated career in college wrestling. Did his opponent go out and shake hands and try to defeat the impossible guy. He did. He won. Who knew? That is the reason that almost everyone on this board, including Best of the West, says it does not matter until we get to February.

 

Now, also, Bradley sent out a freshman against one of the best talents in the sport today in Kyle James. As good as that freshman was, Kyle is the man. He still went out and gave the effort to beat that excellent talent from Soddy.

 

Bradley send out Fuller to go against another talented foe from Soddy in Lane. You do not know unless you venture your guys out there.

 

And finally, I believe that Kyle James went out last year in the duals against Science Hill and lost to a wrestler he gonna beat 99 times out of 100. Not on that day.

 

I do not believe that Coach Henry is a gentleman when it comes to winning championships, I pretty sure Coach Logsdon is not either. So to say it was a gentelman's gesture to Gibson is a insult (IMO) to Coach Henry.

[best_of_the_west]

Obviously I'm not trying to insult Coach Henry. I'm also not saying that I would have done what he did. For all you know, Gibson might have sprained his ankle in the hall walking around in the weigh-in room. They might be dressing him out just to get Soddy to give the forfeit, when Gibson was never even planning on wrestling. That happens all the time out here. That's every now and then out here. That's why most coaches will always put a body on the mat. You can take the "gentleman" issue up with Coach Henry and Coach Logsdon yourself. As for me, I know they could hurt me very badly, so I'm going to stick with calling them gentlemen.