Franklin Asking for a co-champ

[texas23]

To my knowledge there has been no official (written) communication. Many states and national levels have gone to tape review for a variety of sporting events that may be used if needed. It is my opinion that at some point TN will follow the lead.

 

I am not suprised by the preliminary decision either.

Good point.

 

To your knowledge, has any wrestling organization adopted the use of tape review for the purposes of correcting refs or officials?

 

We are all aware (I should not speak for all, but I will) that football and basketball have some tape review, but that is not wrestling. And those sports only review certain situations.

[sundancer]

I work with a guy who is an official in the Northeast. He has indicated to me that in some states, where his own kids have wrestled, the matches are taped. The tapes are only used for specific types of complaints. In a routine team match the tape is not needed, but in their major tournaments when you get to the championship rounds it is common practice.

 

I've visited with him about this specific match and his thought was if it had happened where he was from, don't go after the school/athletic organization but the official's organization. He has seen similar instances of this where the official was required to be recertified for making mistakes. Tapes have also been used to confirm USC by athletes &/or coaches, as well.

 

I think it was an honest mistake by the official and due to the media coverage, he didn't want to take the time, he needed to move on to the next match.

[texas23]

I work with a guy who is an official in the Northeast. He has indicated to me that in some states, where his own kids have wrestled, the matches are taped. The tapes are only used for specific types of complaints. In a routine team match the tape is not needed, but in their major tournaments when you get to the championship rounds it is common practice.

 

I've visited with him about this specific match and his thought was if it had happened where he was from, don't go after the school/athletic organization but the official's organization. He has seen similar instances of this where the official was required to be recertified for making mistakes. Tapes have also been used to confirm USC by athletes &/or coaches, as well.

 

I think it was an honest mistake by the official and due to the media coverage, he didn't want to take the time, he needed to move on to the next match.

I know this is cloak and dagger stuff, but could you be more specific than the NorthEast?

 

What type of complaints are the tapes used for?

 

Also, going after the officials would change that official (maybe), but it would not change the outcome of the match, i.e. the championship would not be divided or changed based on going after the officials. They do not have the authoirty or governance to change the outcome at that time.

[sundancer]

He lives in Maryland, but officiates in several of the surrounding states. His boys all wrestle, too. Sure wish he would relocate his family to TN!

 

If this had happened to him, he would have had the right to call for a tape review of the match. This allows the official to acknowledge that he/she may have made a mistake since the score keeper and one set of coaches had the 3 false starts documented. At the time of tape review, the official would confirm the score and correct it immediately.

 

To do this, you have to modify your rules & regulations to allow the use of tape review when scores are being challenged. His caution to this is that the rule should be narrowed down so that this type of challenge, allowing for tape review, be limited to specific tournaments and only specific rounds of matchs (cons finals & championship finals).

 

In our specific situation if he had been the official calling this match, another official would take the next match that was coming on, while he and the coaches involved stepped to a designated location to review the tape.

 

He has found this whole situation interesting when compared to how he has to handle similar matters at home.

Edited March 23, 2004 by sundancer

[sundancer]

Oops! Didn't realize I didn't answer your question.

 

He states the most time tapes are called for to verify points or unsportsmanlike conduct of athletes, coaches, &/or fans.

 

There have been instances where the tapes have been used against the official, where they technique is being challenged. (You know the bad ref that makes bad calls all the way through the tournament or is inconsistent on how they call.) When they are used in this manner it is usually handled behind the scenes after the event and it is used by the official's organization. In this scenario, you are absolutely right - they don't go back and make any changes to the outcome of any match because it is after the fact.

 

He knows of several officials have been evaluated and had to go through some type of re-education or even had their certification stripped.

 

Sorry for being so long winded... Have a great day!

[texas23]

If this had happened to him, he would have had the right to call for a tape review of the match. This allows the official to acknowledge that he/she may have made a mistake since the score keeper and one set of coaches had the 3 false starts documented. At the time of tape review, the official would confirm the score and correct it immediately.

 

If the official does not acknowledge that he may have made a mistake, does the review go on?

 

Also, I did not think that the Franklin's coach's had documented the false starts, rather they notice the three starts when they were signing the match sheet. Or are you saying the opposing coaches had the false starts documented? If so, unlike golf, I bet they would not bring up the rules infraction at that time.

[coachmasters]

WKEJHJH

Edited March 30, 2004 by KKW

[texas23]

The Franklin Coaches did not have anything documented because if they had they would have approached the table immediately upon the 3rd caution.

 

Karma has its ways of catching up to everyone.

Grinding the axe I see.

[coachmasters]

LQWIDE

Edited March 30, 2004 by KKW

[sundancer]

It is my understanding that the FHS coaches questioned the ref if it was 3 false starts before the match continued and the official said no, it was only two. Then when they got to the table, the score keeper confirmed it.

 

KKW - This is not anything to do with Jon Hill! He has coached my son for 4 years, and as I stated before, Jon Hill will always be my son's coach. Further more, the FHS Coaches (Hill, Welder & Gillespie) have been an amazing trio this year moving these boys on to the next level.

 

If you feel it is absolutely necessary to grind your axe, may I suggest a new thread for that topic.

Edited March 23, 2004 by sundancer

[texas23]

It is my axe to grind.

 

I get a little ticked when a friend of mine does what John Hill has done at FHS only to be replaced because of some spoiled kid and his parents. John worked his tail off to get Franklin where they are today. I am not taking anything away from Jeremy Welder. He is a great addition to their program. I just know how hard JH worked to get them to this point. He even started the Coaches' Clinic to help raise money and promote his program. He put FHS back on the mat and then had the rug jerked from under him. Just ask him if you don't believe it is true.

 

"You reap what you sew."

I believe you.

 

So, are you saying that the other coaches are the ones that "jerked the rug" out from under him? Or was it the AD? or the female principal?

 

And what spoiled kid are you referring to? I hate to be wrong here, but I think you mentioned Davis before, is that correct?

[coachmasters]

k;sjhe

Edited March 30, 2004 by KKW