Multiplier rule did what it was suppose to do!

[lazarus]

flesh gorgon (how are your sisters?),

 

you amuse me...

 

"you can't force every parent to involve....but can you increase it? I think so...by giving them an opportunity to effectively implement some changes."

 

yes, first we can let them run the ball teams, then we can bring that same effectiveness into the classroom!

 

"I think there are a lot of ways to improve involvement ....and allowing a school voucher system,"

 

i agree. i would immediately cash in my vouchers for more involved parents.

 

"merit based pay"

 

ummmm, we dont pay our parents. it would probably help with some, but a lot of them arent going to participate if an effort is required.

 

".....dumping the unions and dropping tenure might be improvements."

 

our parents arent unionized either. but they do have tenure. a lot of laws will have to change before we can take away kids just because the parents are worthless.

 

here is a suggestion just as based on reality as yours...

outlaw privates and home schooling, and force the involved parents back into the public schools.

 

more seriously, it is always easiest to solve problems we know nothing about.

your suggestions sound more like talk radio fodder.

[coachh17]

flesh gorgon (how are your sisters?),

 

you amuse me...

 

"you can't force every parent to involve....but can you increase it? I think so...by giving them an opportunity to effectively implement some changes."

 

yes, first we can let them run the ball teams, then we can bring that same effectiveness into the classroom!

 

"I think there are a lot of ways to improve involvement ....and allowing a school voucher system,"

 

i agree. i would immediately cash in my vouchers for more involved parents.

 

"merit based pay"

 

ummmm, we dont pay our parents. it would probably help with some, but a lot of them arent going to participate if an effort is required.

 

".....dumping the unions and dropping tenure might be improvements."

 

our parents arent unionized either. but they do have tenure. a lot of laws will have to change before we can take away kids just because the parents are worthless.

 

here is a suggestion just as based on reality as yours...

outlaw privates and home schooling, and force the involved parents back into the public schools.

 

more seriously, it is always easiest to solve problems we know nothing about.

your suggestions sound more like talk radio fodder.

Brilliant!

[coachh17]

you can't force every parent to involve....but can you increase it? I think so...by giving them an opportunity to effectively implement some changes. Every private school parent is not involved either...other than writing the check. But can you increase involvement? I think there are a lot of ways to improve involvement ....and allowing a school voucher system, merit based pay....I'm sure there are many things that could improve .....dumping the unions and dropping tenure might be improvements.

Having taught for twelve years and being a union member, let me tell you why tenure is important. It is not to protect bad teachers, the union doesn't want them. Tenure protects the good teachers, which is the vast majority. Without tenure, good teachers would be at the mercy of politically motivated school boards and appointed directors of schools. Many of those folks are only motivated by power, corruption, and greed. Without tenure, good teachers would lose their jobs every time a board members' cousin graduated college, or the new director wanted to put his entire extended family on the system payroll. If you really want to see the public schools collapse.....drop the tenure law.

[itzme]

If you really want to see the public schools collapse.....drop the tenure law.

Excellent suggestion. Then we'd have real competition.

[coachh17]

Please explain what you mean by real competition.

[lazarus]

you guys just have different definitions of "collapse"

itchme sees the current public school system being replaced by something else.

 

eliminating tenure wouldnt change the public schools except for who is teaching.

i dont think public schools would be improved by making teacher a politically appointed position.

Edited December 30, 2005 by lazarus

[coachh17]

you guys just have different definitions of "collapse"

itchme sees the current public school system being replaced by something else.

 

eliminating tenure wouldnt change the public schools except for who is teaching.

i dont think public schools would be improved by making teacher a politically appointed position.

Amen!

[Baldcoach]

Here is my 2cents...and that is about all it is worth.

 

Tenure does not protect good teachers. Good teachers do not need protection. Poor and/or controversial teachers need protection, good teachers are in demand everywhere. Thus, tenure simply assures that if a mediocre, bad, or just plain insane teacher can fool everyone for a couple of years they are assured of a taxpayer funded job and pension for the rest of their lives.

 

Doctors don't get tenure...engineers don't get tenure...in fact, no other profession except teaching has a tenure system. Why? Because no one wants a 'tenured' doctor operating on them, they want a competent or better yet brilliant one. And no one wants a 'tenured' engineer building their bridge, they want a competent one.

 

Teachers should have to compete for their jobs like everyone else...the cream will always rise to the top. With tenure the dregs are artificially held at the top with the cream instead of settling to the bottom where they belong...after all, aren't our kids more important than a bridge?

[coachh17]

Let me say this again. Having taught in the public schools for 12 years I have seen tenure protect many good teachers. Your failed assumption is that all directors, school board members, and principals are wonderful people working to insure that every classroom has a great teacher. They are not all wonderful, in fact many of these folks shouldn't be involved in education at all. Many have their own personal or political agendas and care nothing about a quality education for the students. If good teachers voice their opinions, support the wrong candidate in an election, or disagree with policy or personnel decisions they are in danger of not getting tenure, or if they already have it, being involuntarily transferred "for the good of the system." These same "educational leaders" also make the hiring decisions. So who do you think hires the bad teachers? They also have the power to fire the bad ones through evaluation systems and improvement plans. And don't blame it on the union. We don't have the power to hire or fire, we just make sure our members get due process when administrative actions are taken against a member. The last time I looked, due process rights are mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. We don't want the bad ones hired or retained and wish the administrators would do a better job in hiring and evaluating. In a highly political arena, tenure affords protection for the vast majority of good teachers so that they can teach without worrying about their jobs. Go out and visit some schools and see how hard of a job it is, and see just how hardworking and dedicated the teachers really are.

[itzme]

Please explain what you mean by real competition.

Eliminate tenure. Hold administrators and principals more accountable as well. Implement a full voucher system. I think the more we can do to privatize education, the better off we will be.

 

I guess we could keep the public school system the way it is, but in my view, it is broken. One big problem is that we have somehow come up with this crazy idea that everyone should go to college. That's bull. Many kids would be much better served by attending a trade school instead of their final couple years of high school.

[coachh17]

Eliminate tenure. Hold administrators and principals more accountable as well. Implement a full voucher system. I think the more we can do to privatize education, the better off we will be.

 

I guess we could keep the public school system the way it is, but in my view, it is broken. One big problem is that we have somehow come up with this crazy idea that everyone should go to college. That's bull. Many kids would be much better served by attending a trade school instead of their final couple years of high school.

We can't eliminate tenure until all School Boards and Directors are professional, ethical, and truly care about quality schools.

I'll agree that administrators and principals should be held more accountable.

I don't support vouchers.

I believe every child has the right to a free public education.

Public schools have problems, but they still work and provide a quality education to millions of kids. We need reform, not dismantling.

I will also agree that not everyone should go to college. However, those who want to should be afforded the opportunity to go. Those who don't should be provided training in a trade or vocation.

[Antwan]

We can't eliminate tenure until all School Boards and Directors are professional, ethical, and truly care about quality schools.

I'll agree that administrators and principals should be held more accountable.

I don't support vouchers.

I believe every child has the right to a free public education.

Public schools have problems, but they still work and provide a quality education to millions of kids. We need reform, not dismantling.

I will also agree that not everyone should go to college. However, those who want to should be afforded the opportunity to go. Those who don't should be provided training in a trade or vocation.

 

What do you mean by "afforded the opportunity to go" and "provided training"? Who is supposed to pay for that?