Why was DII formed?

[Antwan]

The Nashville magnet school students that want to play football are put onto another metro team. Hillsboro and MLK have such an arrangement, I believe. Not sure where the Hume Fogg kids go.

 

Now why would those magnet school kids want to separate from their zoned metro schools academically and socially, then want to join back up to play football? That argument sounds familiar, doesn't it?

 

Nah...not really. How many MLK kids play football at Hillsboro?

[VolunteerGeneral]

I didn't know either had a football team.

 

Neither do, but do you disregard all other sports? I must have missed where it was said this was a football only topic.

[Antwan]

Neither do, but do you disregard all other sports? I must have missed where it was said this was a football only topic.

 

I really don't have a very strong opinion about the other sports. Football is what most of this thread concerns. Football is what caused DII...not the other sports.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Antwan

[Indian]

Lookout Valley is 1A, in Chattanooga, I don't ever remember them having a 1-AA player. Temple is 1A, maybe 125 students male and female, and will likely have three Division I signees, either 1-AA or 1-A, after next season. One from last season and two for the 2006 season. The two for the upcoming season are getting legit interest from SEC schools. They've had a team for two or three years. South Pittsburg, Marion, Whitwell and Sequatchie are officially in the Chattanooga metro area, when it comes to data like population, employment figures, it's been 7 or 8 years since those schools produced a Division 1-A player. I believe each has produced one 1-AA player each this decade. How many major college signees has Brentwood Academy produced in the last 10 years? Not sure what rural and city has to do with the argument, either. Baylor, McCallie and Notre Dame all sent a player to a Division 1-A team in February, no other school in Chattanooga sent one. I believe Baylor had five Division 1-AA signees, without looking it up, that was as many or more than the public schools in Chattanooga, 1A through 5A, had combined.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Indian

[CoachT]

It was not an inference. It was an emphatic statement of fact, which is not arguable on any rational basis.

Then the same goes for DII using the same rationality.

[tnsddeveloper]

How about talking about the public schools that obviously recruit? I can name TONS - Magnets and open zoners like Hillsboro, Maryville, Alcoa, MLK, Liberty Tech (championships in the first year or two of existence) and then others like Riverdale, Oak Ridge, Shelbyville, Jackson County, and Melrose. All putting together all star teams year in and out. Why aren't the publics that do this an issue too?

 

Just look at Rankin's decision to move to Alcoa. His zone change requests were about to become a thing of the past with a new county admin that did not favor Riverdale.

He went somewhere that gave him the same advantage. And don't give that he wanted to give his kids the chance to attend high school in a small town crud ... he could have easily moved 5 minutes away and had them attend Eagleville while he coached there. Or he could have moved back home to Carthage. But we all know that he would not have come close to achieving "Riverdale success" at either place ... not even close compared to the advantages that Alcoa offers to him.

[BDURHAM]

Historically inaccurate.

 

There were rules about how many financial aid (scholarship)

players could be on particular sports. There was a movement

to develop a separate division, and the final straw was when

a "private" school wrestling team was found to be in gross

violation of the financial aid players.

 

Some of the "private" schools did not abide by the rules before

the split, and some "private" schools did not follow the rules

after the split.

 

Getting beat by a team in one thing. Getting beat by a team

that doesn't follow the rules is another thing entirely.

 

 

If I recall folks "like" Rankin figured the only way such a small school like BA could compete was that they could get kids to play on financial aid. But in reality they just didn`t like losing to private schools. So Div.II was born based on schools giving financial aid. I don`t think they really expected some private schools to give up financial aid and remain in Div.I. And they have still been trying to complete the split ever since.

[BDURHAM]

Not a lot, but they have been quality kids.

 

They have to take a bus to MLK in the morning.

After school at MLK, they take a bus to Hillsboro.

 

 

Nah...not really. How many MLK kids play football at Hillsboro?

[Indian]

How about talking about the public schools that obviously recruit? I can name TONS - Magnets and open zoners like Hillsboro, Maryville, Alcoa, MLK, Liberty Tech (championships in the first year or two of existence) and then others like Riverdale, Oak Ridge, Shelbyville, Jackson County, and Melrose. All putting together all star teams year in and out. Why aren't the publics that do this an issue too?

 

Just look at Rankin's decision to move to Alcoa. His zone change requests were about to become a thing of the past with a new county admin that did not favor Riverdale.

He went somewhere that gave him the same advantage. And don't give that he wanted to give his kids the chance to attend high school in a small town crud ... he could have easily moved 5 minutes away and had them attend Eagleville while he coached there. Or he could have moved back home to Carthage. But we all know that he would not have come close to achieving "Riverdale success" at either place ... not even close compared to the advantages that Alcoa offers to him.

 

 

Where is the proof they recruit? I agree, I don't like when parents move students into another school strictly for sports, but if they move and do it by the book, there's nothing to stop it. Sometimes, the move is not for sports but the new student turns out to be a good player, Sequatchie has a student who moved here from Chattanooga after her seventh grade year and she turned out to be a good basketball player. At the time, I doubt anyone knew she could pick up a basketball. The city and county are growing more than any other in Southeast Tennessee, something around 12 to 15 percent since 2000, so it's natural there will be some new athletes, too. Most of the schools you mentioned play in the largest division, I'm talking about the small private schools who send many more players to college than their public school counterparts the same size. Patrick Willis from Bruceton is one of the best in the country at Ole Miss, but that type of player doesn't come along very often from a small TN public. Even South Pittsburg, known for its talent over the years, had a 1-AA signee this year and it was the first I remember signing in at least five years. One player I missed in my last post, a fullback who played his senior year at Ooltewah signed with South Carolina. I didn't like how that turned out-He was from Cleveland, played in Georgia for a year or two, then went to Ooltewah for 12th grade and I was told, not sure if it's accurate, that he left at the Christmas break and enrolled in college. I would hope all of that was done "by the book" but it would be hard to arrange it all prior to enrollment, and no contact with a coach is supposed to take place before a student is enrolled.

[lazarus]

"The Nashville magnet school students that want to play football are put onto another metro team. Hillsboro and MLK have such an arrangement, I believe. Not sure where the Hume Fogg kids go.

 

Now why would those magnet school kids want to separate from their zoned metro schools academically and socially, then want to join back up to play football? That argument sounds familiar, doesn't it?"

 

at first i thought you were talking chalk and cheese,

then i realized this was a couched proposal.

i think everyone will be happy with this one...

 

lets see, goodpasture's kids could play with hillsboro, lipscum's kids could play at stratford, ezell harding's at antioch, and so forth. there might be a big fight over who got BA & MBA's kids, but i have a feeling that once the athletic teams were gone, there wouldnt be nearly as many athletes to fight over.

[tnsddeveloper]

Where is the proof they recruit?

Exactly my point with the privates. Where is the proof.

 

I think it is funny that the same reasons some use for publics becoming and staying good don't apply to privates. Like people can't believe that kids with aspirations of playing D1 collegiate football would choose to go to BA and pay the tuition for that chance. Just like 6'3" girls basketball studs move to Shelbyville of all places.

Edited July 9, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[Indian]

Recruiting, as far coaches calling up players, likely doesn't happen too much. That's not really an issue for me..what is an issue is that for whatever reason, the small privates-I include BA in that even though they play up-have much more success, many more 1-A and 1-AA signees than the small publics. Notre Dame, mediocre over the years in Division II, moves back into Division I, even takes away aid according to the Division I polices, and advances to the 3A semifinals their first year with a multiplier in effect too. That just seems too coincidental for there not to be a major competition problem with the schools, overall. I think their last year in Division I, 1996, they were 9-1. Exceptions, yes, Alcoa, Trousdale, a couple more, but those are few and far between. Look how many small privates have sent players to Division 1-A schools the last five years, Alabama, USC, Auburn, and how many small publics have (including 2A that are in metro areas).

Edited July 9, 2006 by Indian