Why was DII formed?

[KCHSCoach]

Coach T, it does say T$$AA is a defacto state actor, that arbitrarily came up with classifcation of 1.8 multiplier on school that are private that give no fincial aide........I smell another winnable law suite, I know this is not a DII issue.

[BDURHAM]

You are not implying that Catholic schools do not give

financial aid in any shape or form are you?

 

Coach T, it does say T$$AA is a defacto state actor, that arbitrarily came up with classifcation of 1.8 multiplier on school that are private that give no fincial aide........I smell another winnable law suite, I know this is not a DII issue.

[KCHSCoach]

THEY DON'T TO ATHLETES IF THEY WISH TO BE ELIGIBLE BY T$$AA STANDARDS (speaking for KCHS and ND)

[CoachT]

Coach T, it does say T$$AA is a defacto state actor, that arbitrarily came up with classifcation of 1.8 multiplier on school that are private that give no fincial aide........I smell another winnable law suite, I know this is not a DII issue.

Then we will end up, in the long run, with a total split or two completely separate organizations.

[Solomon]

Then we will end up, in the long run, with a total split or two completely separate organizations.

 

If it ever comes to a total split, I don't see why any private would stay in the TSSAA. There would be no incentive to stay. Start your own private league, play by your own set of rules, and watch every public school in major cities fall off the face of the earth as private schools are able to offer what they want when they want to the eligible athletes by school standards.

[CoachT]

If it ever comes to a total split, I don't see why any private would stay in the TSSAA. There would be no incentive to stay. Start your own private league, play by your own set of rules, and watch every public school in major cities fall off the face of the earth as private schools are able to offer what they want when they want to the eligible athletes by school standards.

I just don't see an option. If you do what the large majority of schools want and pass rules only to see the courts throw the rules out then you either have to do away with the rules or change the membership. I am not saying the courts would be right or wrong in doing that, even, but it doesn't matter.

[Solomon]

I just don't see an option. If you do what the large majority of schools want and pass rules only to see the courts throw the rules out then you either have to do away with the rules or change the membership. I am not saying the courts would be right or wrong in doing that, even, but it doesn't matter.

 

It's a catch-22. I don't know a whole lot about the whole public/private issue from some aspects, but I like to think I understand part of what both sides think. I don't know if there is a right answer at all, no matter what you do.

[BDURHAM]

None of these athletes take the "Catholic" discount?

Is paying less tuition in any form considered financial

aid?

 

I thought this was a major reason Father Ryan went to

Division II. The school claims to not offer financial aid

to athletes. There may be some kids who have financial

aid to attend the school, but there are so many different

ways a kid can receive financial aid that it is too much

of a hassle to separate it all and remain DI.

 

Anyone from Father Ryan reading this who can provide

some input?

 

FYI -- I am Catholic, and have no problem with the discount.

But I do not have children competing as athletes at a Catholic

school.

 

THEY DON'T TO ATHLETES IF THEY WISH TO BE ELIGIBLE BY T$$AA STANDARDS (speaking for KCHS and ND)

[itzme]

I just don't see an option. If you do what the large majority of schools want and pass rules only to see the courts throw the rules out then you either have to do away with the rules or change the membership. I am not saying the courts would be right or wrong in doing that, even, but it doesn't matter.

If it is a well constructed rule that is understood by all parties in its entirety, and is equitably applied, then no court will throw it out. I think that anyone reading through the TSSAA "Undue Influence" rule would have to agree that it did not meet the criteria stated. I also think that most people who have bothered to research the facts behind the BA case would agree that the application of the rule in that instance was probably not equitable when viwed in context of many other things that go on.

 

Any state association has a big challenge in this area. Recruiting is very difficult to define, and perhaps even more difficult to enforce across the board. It's kind of like what one Supreme Court Justice (was it Stewart?) once said about pornography..."I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

 

What I would personally like to see is for the TSSAA to stay together with both public and private schools, a new, more carefully worded recruiting rule to be implemented, and for the current discrimination against private schools to end.

 

I hope that can happen.

[uncfan13]

There was very good article about the TSSAA/BA lawsuit in the Chattanooga Times-Free Press Sunday and a follow up article this morning along with a thoughtful op/ed piece in the sports section. I'd copy the articles here but coacht takes a dim view of copyright infringement. It didn't break new ground on the issue but explained it dispassionately.

[CoachT]

There was very good article about the TSSAA/BA lawsuit in the Chattanooga Times-Free Press Sunday and a follow up article this morning along with a thoughtful op/ed piece in the sports section. I'd copy the articles here but coacht takes a dim view of copyright infringement. It didn't break new ground on the issue but explained it dispassionately.

You are right. Can't copy them here, even if you give them the credit they are due, because they are a paid-subscription site.

[DS2001]

None of these athletes take the "Catholic" discount?

Is paying less tuition in any form considered financial

aid?

 

I thought this was a major reason Father Ryan went to

Division II. The school claims to not offer financial aid

to athletes. There may be some kids who have financial

aid to attend the school, but there are so many different

ways a kid can receive financial aid that it is too much

of a hassle to separate it all and remain in DII

 

 

 

Father Ryan DOES give financial aid to athletes as well as other students in need based situations........There also is a "Catholic" discount that is subsidized by the Parish that you attend that most all Catholic students take advantage of.....This school year, the "Catholic" tuition rate is about $7,400....the "Catholic not a member of a Parish" rate is around $9,000......the Non-Catholic rate is nearly $11,000.........Currently, a need based student can receive up to 55% tuition discount at Father Ryan.............Knox Catholic and Notre Dame chose to return to D-I and eliminate the financial aid that the schools would give.....However, I have heard that some sort of aid is available through the Catholic churches in Chattanooga and Knoxville to all students at these schools that is not in conflict with the TSSAA rule.

Edited July 17, 2006 by DS2001