Whats wrong with total public/private split?

[BDURHAM]

How about this life lesson:

 

We are putting you into the real world. You are going to

a public school. If you don't succeed in this environment,

then you may never succeed in the real world after

school.

 

Trying to use your logic....

 

The logical conclusion of my philosophy is to play the teams on your schedule and do so without complaining about advantages the opponent may or may not have.

 

In response to your question: How would a school eliminate competition (that they never had in the first place) by moving up in classification? For example, how is Nashville Christian (single A private) eliminating competition by not moving into Antioch's region (5A public)? The two schools have never met and likely never will on a football field. However, if they did I doubt Nashville Christian players and fans would demand that Antioch be removed from the schedule based on the advantages they may have because of a dramtically larger enrollment.

 

And furthermore, your statement implies that all competition statewide is "watered down" and "weak" unless it is in the largest classification. Of course that is ridiculous.

 

Your looking for flaws in my argument and thats fine but you can't argue with teaching kids to focus on bettering themselves instead of worrying about the other guy. Public schoolers have no choice but to think they are at a disadvantage because they hear it and read it on here from their parents and members of their community constantly. To relate it to the business world.... it would be easy if Adidas executives could just tell Nike to leave the country, but its not real world and its not happening. Eliminating the competition doesn't work and isn't a respectable solution in any other walk of life, why should it be done in high school sports?

 

This whole debate is all about wanting your kids or your community school to get more wins. When the small privates were getting stomped this talk was non-existent. The same supposed advantages were there back then; kids from all over could come to one school, the kids parents were willing to put their own dollars into sports facilities, private schools required students to participate in sports, and on and on and on.... but the fact is no one was talking about these supposed advantages until CPA, DCA, and Boyd-Buchanan dominated single A football for about a decade. If small public schools had been winning none of this split talk would be going on.

 

Which brings me to my original point, proponents of the split only want it to allow their kid to win a few more games a season instead of thinking about the lesson it teaches.

[lazarus]

i"...f they did I doubt Nashville Christian players and fans would demand that Antioch be removed from the schedule based on the advantages they may have because of a dramtically larger enrollment."

 

an interesting choice for your example...

ncs requested a transfer to D-2 next year,

because they cannot compete where they are now.

[JaxMan]

Still looking for an answer. Why do the private schools oppose the idea of competing against each other? Public schools not good enough for you to send your kids to so why do you insist on competing against public schools?

 

I can only speak for me...my choice had to do with 2 issues...I wanted my kids to be able to pray inschool everyday...to have bible taught and be around the people I knew who taught at JCS...the second reason was the crime situation in Jackson years ago when we made our choice (my kids have been at JCS all the way thru so the choice is an old one)...as for why some privates oppose playing all private schools would be much the same as yours...Division 2 privates give aid and can bring kids in from anywhere by paying their tution...not all private schools are alike anymore than all publics...I am willing to play in an all private school division for non aid giving schools...make 3 groups...publics, private non aid and private aid and I am fine with that...but if you want fair then be fair to all...don't attempt to solve your problem by just throwing all privates division 1 and 2 together...

 

Finally this issue ususally gets most attemntion after a public school loses in the playoffs to a private...but honestly I have read enough forums on here thru the years to know the real problem is hating to lose...look at the threads where a2 publics played and the loser keeps the thread going long after the game...the complaints are different but the sentiment is the same...I respect the comments on anither thread of MRBigster...a long time Lake County fan...he said he felt better equiped to compete with JCS than Union City or McKenzie...the truth is there will always be schools who dominate...compare Milan to Gibson County...same region...same county...much different programs...

[derek782]

i"...f they did I doubt Nashville Christian players and fans would demand that Antioch be removed from the schedule based on the advantages they may have because of a dramtically larger enrollment."

 

an interesting choice for your example...

ncs requested a transfer to D-2 next year,

because they cannot compete where they are now.

 

 

I know very little about either school I used in this specific example. I'm not a middle TN native. My point was to use a small private and a large public. Sorry for any confusion.

[derek782]

How about this life lesson:

 

We are putting you into the real world. You are going to

a public school. If you don't succeed in this environment,

then you may never succeed in the real world after

school.

 

Trying to use your logic....

 

 

Isn't that what all parents think or say when they send their kids off to school? I don't think that sentiment is strictly for public schools. When parents send their kid to school they send them off and say if you don't get an education your chances of succeeding are pretty small. Not sure how that thought applies to a public/private split.

[JaxMan]

How about this life lesson:

 

We are putting you into the real world. You are going to

a public school. If you don't succeed in this environment,

then you may never succeed in the real world after

school.

 

Trying to use your logic....

 

we all chose the life lessons we want to teach...you are right in that private school kids have not dealt with real life as they might have in public schools...but it is also true that by removing private schools instead of finding a way to compete we are teaching a lesson that is not real life...sometimes people win other than us...sometimes we think they have advantages...but in life we have to accept or learn to overcome...not just move them...

[BDURHAM]

I may not be making my point clear.

 

One set of parents chooses to send his/her child

to a private school for better "spiritual development,

better academics, less crime, smaller school, etc."

 

That doesn't necessarily support your theory

about the lessons being taught kids that

they should compete against everyone.

 

What is the message? "This school is too tough

for you. We're going to send you to an

environment with training wheels...."

 

Just trying to use your logic.

 

Isn't that what all parents think or say when they send their kids off to school? I don't think that sentiment is strictly for public schools. When parents send their kid to school they send them off and say if you don't get an education your chances of succeeding are pretty small. Not sure how that thought applies to a public/private split.

[derek782]

I bet Red Boiling Springs would learn some character if they were lined up against Riverdale. Why not that matchup? The comparisons to the business world, the real world, whatever it is being called are meaningless. This is high school athletics we're talking about. A Smith County, for an example, would still have a Milan or Alcoa in the way this year if there was a split, so nothing would be easy. It would just be against students with parents who didn't feel they needed to be divided for academics and school in general, but brought back together for athletics.

 

 

Indian, I agree that even after a split that nothing would be easy. Their are plenty of competitive public schools in all sports in all classifications throughout the state. Secondly I'm not saying that publics should play privates so they can lose on the field and gain character (ie Red Boiling Springs vs. Riverdale). I'm saying the non financial aid giving privates aren't different enough from the publics to warrant a split. Therefore, by telling kids in public schools that the guys at Boyd or DCA or JCS or wherever have some huge advantage over them then the guys at the smaller public schools are destined to fail. They are kids and are going to believe, for the most part, what their parents tell them.

 

I always enjoy your posts and agree with much of what you say outside the public/private forum. I have to disagree, however, that real world examples don't apply to this situation. High school sports is about preparing kids for the real world. Bottom line. Thats hard for guys like us who love our teams enough to get on here and rant and rave about high school athletics as grown men. I fall into that category, I admit. I want my school to win every game. But lets step back and look objectively, if the kids who participate aren't better suited for life as an adult after their participation then we have failed. And I don't think that telling one group of kids that another group has advantages over them and therefore should be sent away so as to not have to deal with them is helping anybody.

[derek782]

I may not be making my point clear.

 

One set of parents chooses to send his/her child

to a private school for better "spiritual development,

better academics, less crime, smaller school, etc."

 

That doesn't necessarily support your theory

about the lessons being taught kids that

they should compete against everyone.

 

What is the message? "This school is too tough

for you. We're going to send you to an

environment with training wheels...."

 

Just trying to use your logic.

 

I see your point and it is well taken. My response is this: sending a kid the message that we want them to pray in school and sending a kid the message that you don't have to compete against people who may or may not have advantages over you are two totally different messages. The first one is a message that kids will thank their parents for years later. The second one is a lesson that no parent would teach their kid in any other realm of life so why in high school sports?

[Old Timer]

I`m going to add one more thing to this thread.

 

I don`t keep up too much with the other end of the state (East TN, but as far as the Western part of the 1A bracket I want to point out that Lake County was a #4 seed out of an all public region.

 

Lake County knocked off one of the top ranked teams in the state. They beat Fayette Academy who was the #1 seed in their region. They also knocked off TCA who was a #3 seed in their region. JCS who was a #2 seed had to convert a 4th down and 10 for a TD from 32 yards out with 20 seconds to go in the game to come from behind and beat Lake County.

 

All I`m saying is that is a #4 seed can do that then it seems like, at least on this end of the state, that it`s fairly competitive here. For someone to complain about JCS earning their way into the championship just seems totally biased to me.

 

Trousdale Co. does it year in and year out. What is their male enrollment on avg? Don't hear them crying about all of this. Maybe Coach Satterfield is a very good coach

[JaxMan]

so does Milan in 2A...Coach Morris welcomes whoever's on the schedule and more times than not beats them

[lazarus]

"I'm saying the *non financial aid giving privates* aren't different enough from the publics to warrant a split...And I don't think that telling one group of kids that another group has advantages over them and therefore should be sent away so as to not have to deal with them is helping anybody."

 

yet, somehow, your philosophy towards the financial aid privates seems to be identical to the public attitude toward privates that you criticize.

the word for the day would be dichotomy.