Maryville v. Maplewood

[Antwan]

Please don't call me a liar again again because I choose not to give the names of schools.

 

And so will you head the cause for Smith Co. to play up in 09 since you guys fit the mold of an open zoned school?

 

 

We played up the previous 4 year period. Yeah...if it were up to me...we would play up again.

 

No...I don't think you know any specific situations. Call it what you want to.

[Solomon]

We played up the previous 4 year period. Yeah...if it were up to me...we would play up again.

 

No...I don't think you know any specific situations. Call it what you want to.

 

 

I don't care whether you believe me or not, it happens and has happened for years and has become more popular in recent years because the smaller school has become much better academically too.

 

That said, it still doesn't matter the schools involved. If a school is in a situation to where a student can choose it over another school, then they have an advantage over other schools that are in a completely closed zone. Whether it be rural or urban, public or private, there is an advantage. And once the anti-privates get their way and their is a total split, single A schools that are in open zoned counties suddenly have a big advantage over those that do not. Because if you don't think one good player cannot make a difference in single A, then you are fooling yourself.

 

If the T$$AA really does want to provide a level playing field that is fair to all, then these schools need to be considered to be unfair just as are the privates and completley open-zoned schools because according to the folks here, they all share inherent advantages over closed zones schools.

 

And I mean...the reason for multipliers and different divisions if for fairness and equality....right?

[Antwan]

I don't care whether you believe me or not, it happens and has happened for years and has become more popular in recent years because the smaller school has become much better academically too.

 

That said, it still doesn't matter the schools involved. If a school is in a situation to where a student can choose it over another school, then they have an advantage over other schools that are in a completely closed zone. Whether it be rural or urban, public or private, there is an advantage. And once the anti-privates get their way and their is a total split, single A schools that are in open zoned counties suddenly have a big advantage over those that do not. Because if you don't think one good player cannot make a difference in single A, then you are fooling yourself.

 

If the T$$AA really does want to provide a level playing field that is fair to all, then these schools need to be considered to be unfair just as are the privates and completley open-zoned schools because according to the folks here, they all share inherent advantages over closed zones schools.

 

And I mean...the reason for multipliers and different divisions if for fairness and equality....right?

 

 

It's not very common in rural schools. At least...I haven't seen much evidence of it. Most rural counties have only one school. The ones that have more than one don't have that many kids flocking to them to attend. Most of these schools are very equal academically. I know Smith County and Gordonsville are. If there is an advantage...it's not enough to worry about. Rural county zones would be very easy to define. All we would have to do is use bus routes.

 

You say you know of all these places and schools where this is happening...but you won't say where. Gee...why wouldn't I believe you? /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Well...I live in one of those counties where it could easily happen. It doesn't much.

[Baldcoach]

Smith County only has about 17,000 or so people. We have about 640 or so kids...and Gordonsville has about 320 or so kids. There is very little movement from one to the other. If someone did want to play for the other...just move a few miles. The schools are only 6 miles apart. I really don't think there's any advantage at all. If the zones were closed...I think very few would even notice. Now...if Smith County had 100,000 people...it would matter. There...you would have a 1a or 2a school with the potential to draw from 100,000 people. Of course...you would probably have a couple of 5a schools with that scenario instead of a 1a and 2a school. If that were the case...I don't think it would matter much. Schools that big normally draw from a pretty big population base.

 

You keep referring back to East Tennessee. East Tennessee has won titles several times...of course in 2a (Alcoa) and 4a (Maryville). Fulton has done very well in 3a...but they have not done any better than David Lipscomb. Livingston won the 3a title a few years ago. Also...East Tennessee has not dominated 1a or 5a. Like I said before...it's not all about titles. I posted before who won and who finished runners-up in the last 7 years.

 

Also...if Alcoa is playing with kids within their zone (even ones that have moved in) I don't care if they win 20 titles in a row. Same with Tyner. The only problem with them is if they are winning with out of zone athletes. I do have a problem with that.

 

 

Somehow we aren't connecting Antwan...

 

If Smith County is open zoned, and if there are enough kids to make a single 4a school in the 2 schools in Smith County, then the potential exists for any kid in the middle school(s) to make a decision about where to go to high school based on which school has the best Football program. THAT is a potential advantage for SC over counties that only have 1 2a school in them.

 

It is the same potential advantage that magnet schools have, only to a lesser degree in SC because of a smaller population. It is the same potential advantage that small privates have...to a greater degree than most.

 

Note that the questions isn't whether the movement occurs...because we all know that it does some of the time and doesn't some of the time. The question is CAN IT occur? If so then the potential for an advantage exists. Just like it exists in Marion County. And just like it exists for all privates. And just like it exists in ANY county that has a city school system and a county school system or a metro system...or more than one school that kids can freely decide on.

 

In fact, well over 80% of all kids in the state are in a system where this advantage exists. So why are the small privates singled out as the sole possessors of this type of advantage? They are actually some of the few schools that really do have a closed zone. Only it isn't closed geographically, it is closed financially, which is just as closed if not more so than some ficitonal line on a map.

[Antwan]

Somehow we aren't connecting Antwan...

 

If Smith County is open zoned, and if there are enough kids to make a single 4a school in the 2 schools in Smith County, then the potential exists for any kid in the middle school(s) to make a decision about where to go to high school based on which school has the best Football program. THAT is a potential advantage for SC over counties that only have 1 2a school in them.

 

It is the same potential advantage that magnet schools have, only to a lesser degree in SC because of a smaller population. It is the same potential advantage that small privates have...to a greater degree than most.

 

Note that the questions isn't whether the movement occurs...because we all know that it does some of the time and doesn't some of the time. The question is CAN IT occur? If so then the potential for an advantage exists. Just like it exists in Marion County. And just like it exists for all privates. And just like it exists in ANY county that has a city school system and a county school system or a metro system...or more than one school that kids can freely decide on.

 

In fact, well over 80% of all kids in the state are in a system where this advantage exists. So why are the small privates singled out as the sole possessors of this type of advantage? They are actually some of the few schools that really do have a closed zone. Only it isn't closed geographically, it is closed financially, which is just as closed if not more so than some ficitonal line on a map.

 

 

Actually we would be right at the top of 3a if both schools were combined at 949 or so.

 

I agree that there could be an advantage...even though there isn't in our case. I have said over and over

I am for defined zones for all public schools. That includes us. If we decide not to close our zones...we both move

up one class. We would move to 3a (which we did before).

 

I do agree that some small privates are limited by income...however...I think the advantage is still there for the vast majority.

 

I don't agree that 80% of schools are in a system where this advantage exists.

[GREYRIDER]

maybe we should let the TSSAA evenly distribute all the "good players , bluechippers and or D-1 players across the board. Would that be acceptable , forced relocation because one team is not as "advantaged" as another. It is all by choice people... people choose were they want the children to go to school, so because of this should we make all schools equal.? equally mediorce , sounds like some old fashioned socialism to me. Sounds like another entitlement program / welfarse program. 'I do not have any so give me some of theirs (mentality).

[Antwan]

maybe we should let the TSSAA evenly distribute all the "good players , bluechippers and or D-1 players across the board. Would that be acceptable , forced relocation because one team is not as "advantaged" as another. It is all by choice people... people choose were they want the children to go to school, so because of this should we make all schools equal.? equally mediorce , sounds like some old fashioned socialism to me. Sounds like another entitlement program / welfarse program. 'I do not have any so give me some of theirs (mentality).

 

 

If you want to add something constructive to the conversation...by all means do so. If not...don't waste everybody else's time.

[emily777]

don't waste time

[LA55LA]

Who was barred from post season competition? I thought all of them played in the playoffs. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

 

 

 

The Maplewood coach showed me something this year especially but in previous years. Lets be honest, they used to stink; he's brought them sucess. they were in the hunt last year and in the big one this year. for what it's worth, i'd take him over 99% of coaches.

[Baldcoach]

Actually we would be right at the top of 3a if both schools were combined at 949 or so.

 

I agree that there could be an advantage...even though there isn't in our case. I have said over and over

I am for defined zones for all public schools. That includes us. If we decide not to close our zones...we both move

up one class. We would move to 3a (which we did before).

 

I do agree that some small privates are limited by income...however...I think the advantage is still there for the vast majority.

 

I don't agree that 80% of schools are in a system where this advantage exists.

 

 

Think about it...ALL metro schools, that takes care of half the state's population alone. Any county that has more than one school (don't know how many). All private schools (a fifth of the students in the state). that is easily 80%. Again, not saying that an advantage exists (although I think that we could make a statistical argument that it does) but that it is possible for these schools vs. the single school counties.

 

Put them all back together, give the single school counties a .7 or .8 multiplier so they play smaller.

 

But certainly don't split or multiply one set of schools for the same advantage that many others have.

[Antwan]

Think about it...ALL metro schools, that takes care of half the state's population alone. Any county that has more than one school (don't know how many). All private schools (a fifth of the students in the state). that is easily 80%. Again, not saying that an advantage exists (although I think that we could make a statistical argument that it does) but that it is possible for these schools vs. the single school counties.

 

Put them all back together, give the single school counties a .7 or .8 multiplier so they play smaller.

 

But certainly don't split or multiply one set of schools for the same advantage that many others have.

 

 

I would think the vast majority of public schools in the state have defined zones. We are not talking about the number of students...we are talking about the number of schools. Large metro schools are not affected very much because most all of them are in 4a or 5a. I also think tuition paying or open zone schools do not matter much unless they are in smaller classes (namely 1a and 2a). Even then...there are very few schools where it matters at all.

[GREYRIDER]

If you want to add something constructive to the conversation...by all means do so. If not...don't waste everybody else's time.

 

the conversation sounds like a whinefest at a support group of somekind. Iwill add what I choose. If you do not like it then do not read it. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />