Maryville v. Maplewood

[VolunteerGeneral]

The multiplier was not instigated by level of participation of private schools. It is instigated because of small private schools being in larger populated areas. They have the potential to get more athletes. Some do...some don't.

 

 

I dont agree that was the reasoning for the multiplier. That makes it an urban/rural decision and I just don`t think that was the root cause. The main reason I kept hearing coaches complain about was the fact that privates didn`t have a strict zone from which to get their students. You know...the old saying "we have to take what gets off the yellow bus".

[Baldcoach]

itzme I agree. But isn`t it about time we all spread false propaganda about Maryville. It`s time we stir the masses so that everyone is ready to run them out of the TSSAA. I mean the same campaign has been going on for several years against the private schools. Your statement about Maryville not cheating is what most private school supporters have been saying for years. They don`t cheat and they play under the same rules as every other Div. I team.

 

 

Alas, for a few years 3 or 4 of us were too successful, thus we must have been cheating. But, it wouldn't have mattered if we could have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was cheating...because imo it wasn't about that. There were a bunch of reasons given for the multiplier, but when pressed everyone eventually came back to the same admission. The DI privates were winning way too much, some of the influential small public coaches were jealous and upset that they weren't the ones killing everyone, so they multiplied us.

 

Remember way back about 4 or 5 years ago I warned that what this really was was a witch hunt for anyone who excelled? And I warned that once the small privates were split out or multiplied into mediocrity that the new targets would be the magnets and open zoned schools who excelled? All the private bashers laughed and wrote sarcastic posts back to me because OF COURSE it wasn't a witch hunt for anyone who was a bit different and excelled.

 

Now look what is going on. It won't stop with open zoned and magnets though. Once they are gone or multiplied the same whiny coaches will still occasionally get beaten...then it will be some other factor. They will split or multiply by racial makeup, or IQ, or urban/rural, or average salary etc. The real problem is there are some people who are in charge of our kids who would rather legislate a championship for themselves than figure out what to change to win one.

 

I think the whole process is a sad reflection of society. Instead of making a few laws that punish people who are dishonest and enforcing those laws harshly and consistently we make hundreds of rediculous smaller laws that we have a hard time enforcing at all...all in the hopes that we can legislate safety, or good parenting etc. The TSSAA's solution to every problem is to come up with new rules/regs that are more restrictive. The problem with this approach is that those who are cheating just break the new rules, so the only ones hurt are the ones who are honest to start with. Instead of splitting DII schools out because of suspected violations by some of the larger DII schools, the TSSAA should have investigated the suspect schools and then HAMMMMEEERRREEEDDD any that were found guilty of rules violations. The same should occur with the DI privates. Instead of a silly multiplier, investigate the snot out of them and hammer any violaters. The same with open zones, magnets, and every other school. That way the cheaters get clobbered and the honest people aren't continually punished with new and more oppressive rules.

 

But, alas, no one has made me King of the World yet, so I can't fix the problem. Maybe Thompson will pick me up as his VP running mate if he gets the nomination. Then I can reinvent the internet while I take care of all the silly laws and rules that are piling up and simultaneously win the Nobel Peace Prize for pushing some unproven cause with a film on Oprah...nah, that's the stupidest set of unlikely events ever... /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

[Antwan]

I dont agree that was the reasoning for the multiplier. That makes it an urban/rural decision and I just don`t think that was the root cause. The main reason I kept hearing coaches complain about was the fact that privates didn`t have a strict zone from which to get their students. You know...the old saying "we have to take what gets off the yellow bus".

 

 

That's true...but those small privates just happen to be in urban areas. I heard Carter say the population base issue was the reason for the multiplier. True or not..that's what he said.

[big red big blue]

here's the article where RC describes participation level as the reason for the multiplier:

 

http://preps.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...04&game_id=

 

 

From the article: "Several factors were involved in implementation of the multiplier rule. The biggest was the percentage of students that participate in athletics."

[Bighurt]

That's true...but those small privates just happen to be in urban areas. I heard Carter say the population base issue was the reason for the multiplier. True or not..that's what he said.

 

It appears that Mr. Carter was justifying using 1.8 as the multiplier when he brought up the level of participation.

[GREYRIDER]

Hello Mr. Maryville! Nice to cheat, errr, meet you! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

They shouldn't bow out. They have it great right where they are. Somehow always staying right under the 5A level radar while getting kids to attend via tuition that don't reside in their zone. Wait, isn't that why everyone freaks out about the privates and instituted D2 and the multiplier? Oh wait, the rest of Maryville's students that live in the Maryville proper area don't have the burden of paying tuition - it is free. /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

 

yes it is free for the $3500 a yr I pay in city taxes. And I do not consider myself MR MARYVILLE ,Iam actually from N. Knoxville and a graduate from KNOXVILLE CENTRAL were Iwas MR CHS. I am however a proud supporter of MHS and all those little stinking , cheating boys and girls who seem to keep branding "L's" on evrybodys butts and that sir is what you have the problem with. So let us just get right down to the basic fact , and no offense is intended to anyone by this statement , what we have is a bunch of over achieving white kids (predomintely) who work hard and sacrifice and work as a team and they happen to be well coached. we do not have a bunch of "bluechippers" every year but we do have many kids with huge hearts and dedication , and their grades are not bad either. Have you ever been to MARYVILLE ? Ever been to a game on friday night? Ever seen the support system ... parents , community etc etc. I am not an apologist for MARYVILLE , but Iam sorry for you and those like you who cannot respect anyone anywhere for there accomplishments. Until you can do that you will never experience this type of TRADITION! But keep on hating us because we thrive on it! GO REBELS!!!! 60 - 0 /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[big red big blue]

You will never create a true "level playing field". The attempts to do so have only created ill-will, and a watered down playoff system.

 

Yes, Maryville should have to (or get to, depending on your perspective) play against Smyrna, MBA, BA...you name the school...in order to win a state championship.

 

I recognize that I am preaching to the choir, BRBB. You make a nice logical argument, and would score well in a debate, but we both also know that the perfect system will never happen.

 

 

I don't mean to single out Maryville here...what they've done speaks for itself, and they just play against whoever the TSSAA tells them to. I just want to point out that while it is the private schools who have borne the brunt of every effort made at trying to achieve a level playing field, within D1 there are glaring examples of inequity that will quietly go unmentioned. How many times do you expect we will hear over the coming off-season "the multiplier isn't working" with DLHS' title offered up as evidence? Versus the number of people who will point out that Maryville won a 4a title by beating a team that it outnumbered player-wise 3 to 1?

 

I agree that the whole thing is pointless...I mean, why bother? I should just be thankful that enough "new blood" has made its way into TN that we (MBA/BA/etc.) have a legitimate local slate of games and have cut down on the hundreds of miles of travel every season.

[SwamiSays]

Alas, for a few years 3 or 4 of us were too successful, thus we must have been cheating. But, it wouldn't have mattered if we could have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was cheating...because imo it wasn't about that. There were a bunch of reasons given for the multiplier, but when pressed everyone eventually came back to the same admission. The DI privates were winning way too much, some of the influential small public coaches were jealous and upset that they weren't the ones killing everyone, so they multiplied us.

 

Remember way back about 4 or 5 years ago I warned that what this really was was a witch hunt for anyone who excelled? And I warned that once the small privates were split out or multiplied into mediocrity that the new targets would be the magnets and open zoned schools who excelled? All the private bashers laughed and wrote sarcastic posts back to me because OF COURSE it wasn't a witch hunt for anyone who was a bit different and excelled.

 

Now look what is going on. It won't stop with open zoned and magnets though. Once they are gone or multiplied the same whiny coaches will still occasionally get beaten...then it will be some other factor. They will split or multiply by racial makeup, or IQ, or urban/rural, or average salary etc. The real problem is there are some people who are in charge of our kids who would rather legislate a championship for themselves than figure out what to change to win one.

 

I think the whole process is a sad reflection of society. Instead of making a few laws that punish people who are dishonest and enforcing those laws harshly and consistently we make hundreds of rediculous smaller laws that we have a hard time enforcing at all...all in the hopes that we can legislate safety, or good parenting etc. The TSSAA's solution to every problem is to come up with new rules/regs that are more restrictive. The problem with this approach is that those who are cheating just break the new rules, so the only ones hurt are the ones who are honest to start with. Instead of splitting DII schools out because of suspected violations by some of the larger DII schools, the TSSAA should have investigated the suspect schools and then HAMMMMEEERRREEEDDD any that were found guilty of rules violations. The same should occur with the DI privates. Instead of a silly multiplier, investigate the snot out of them and hammer any violaters. The same with open zones, magnets, and every other school. That way the cheaters get clobbered and the honest people aren't continually punished with new and more oppressive rules.

 

But, alas, no one has made me King of the World yet, so I can't fix the problem. Maybe Thompson will pick me up as his VP running mate if he gets the nomination. Then I can reinvent the internet while I take care of all the silly laws and rules that are piling up and simultaneously win the Nobel Peace Prize for pushing some unproven cause with a film on Oprah...nah, that's the stupidest set of unlikely events ever... /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

 

Another great post from you Coach.

I agree totally about this being a reflection of society. TSSAA figured out that it cant catch the cheaters, so it implements rules and regs against those who are already following the rules. In society, its the same, the law breakers continue to break the laws, even the new one that are written to stop them and those that abide the law are stuck with having to abide by even more laws, even though they have never broken any.

[robjim]

Alas, for a few years 3 or 4 of us were too successful, thus we must have been cheating. But, it wouldn't have mattered if we could have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was cheating...because imo it wasn't about that. There were a bunch of reasons given for the multiplier, but when pressed everyone eventually came back to the same admission. The DI privates were winning way too much, some of the influential small public coaches were jealous and upset that they weren't the ones killing everyone, so they multiplied us.

 

Remember way back about 4 or 5 years ago I warned that what this really was was a witch hunt for anyone who excelled? And I warned that once the small privates were split out or multiplied into mediocrity that the new targets would be the magnets and open zoned schools who excelled? All the private bashers laughed and wrote sarcastic posts back to me because OF COURSE it wasn't a witch hunt for anyone who was a bit different and excelled.

 

Now look what is going on. It won't stop with open zoned and magnets though. Once they are gone or multiplied the same whiny coaches will still occasionally get beaten...then it will be some other factor. They will split or multiply by racial makeup, or IQ, or urban/rural, or average salary etc. The real problem is there are some people who are in charge of our kids who would rather legislate a championship for themselves than figure out what to change to win one.

 

I think the whole process is a sad reflection of society. Instead of making a few laws that punish people who are dishonest and enforcing those laws harshly and consistently we make hundreds of rediculous smaller laws that we have a hard time enforcing at all...all in the hopes that we can legislate safety, or good parenting etc. The TSSAA's solution to every problem is to come up with new rules/regs that are more restrictive. The problem with this approach is that those who are cheating just break the new rules, so the only ones hurt are the ones who are honest to start with. Instead of splitting DII schools out because of suspected violations by some of the larger DII schools, the TSSAA should have investigated the suspect schools and then HAMMMMEEERRREEEDDD any that were found guilty of rules violations. The same should occur with the DI privates. Instead of a silly multiplier, investigate the snot out of them and hammer any violaters. The same with open zones, magnets, and every other school. That way the cheaters get clobbered and the honest people aren't continually punished with new and more oppressive rules.

 

But, alas, no one has made me King of the World yet, so I can't fix the problem. Maybe Thompson will pick me up as his VP running mate if he gets the nomination. Then I can reinvent the internet while I take care of all the silly laws and rules that are piling up and simultaneously win the Nobel Peace Prize for pushing some unproven cause with a film on Oprah...nah, that's the stupidest set of unlikely events ever... /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

 

Excellent, BC, you may now sit in the pressbox.

[Antwan]

It appears that Mr. Carter was justifying using 1.8 as the multiplier when he brought up the level of participation.

 

 

I didn't see that article when written. I did see an interview with Carter...and I heard him talk about population base. He could have said participation...but I don't remember it.

[Antwan]

Alas, for a few years 3 or 4 of us were too successful, thus we must have been cheating. But, it wouldn't have mattered if we could have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was cheating...because imo it wasn't about that. There were a bunch of reasons given for the multiplier, but when pressed everyone eventually came back to the same admission. The DI privates were winning way too much, some of the influential small public coaches were jealous and upset that they weren't the ones killing everyone, so they multiplied us.

 

Remember way back about 4 or 5 years ago I warned that what this really was was a witch hunt for anyone who excelled? And I warned that once the small privates were split out or multiplied into mediocrity that the new targets would be the magnets and open zoned schools who excelled? All the private bashers laughed and wrote sarcastic posts back to me because OF COURSE it wasn't a witch hunt for anyone who was a bit different and excelled.

 

Now look what is going on. It won't stop with open zoned and magnets though. Once they are gone or multiplied the same whiny coaches will still occasionally get beaten...then it will be some other factor. They will split or multiply by racial makeup, or IQ, or urban/rural, or average salary etc. The real problem is there are some people who are in charge of our kids who would rather legislate a championship for themselves than figure out what to change to win one.

 

I think the whole process is a sad reflection of society. Instead of making a few laws that punish people who are dishonest and enforcing those laws harshly and consistently we make hundreds of rediculous smaller laws that we have a hard time enforcing at all...all in the hopes that we can legislate safety, or good parenting etc. The TSSAA's solution to every problem is to come up with new rules/regs that are more restrictive. The problem with this approach is that those who are cheating just break the new rules, so the only ones hurt are the ones who are honest to start with. Instead of splitting DII schools out because of suspected violations by some of the larger DII schools, the TSSAA should have investigated the suspect schools and then HAMMMMEEERRREEEDDD any that were found guilty of rules violations. The same should occur with the DI privates. Instead of a silly multiplier, investigate the snot out of them and hammer any violaters. The same with open zones, magnets, and every other school. That way the cheaters get clobbered and the honest people aren't continually punished with new and more oppressive rules.

 

But, alas, no one has made me King of the World yet, so I can't fix the problem. Maybe Thompson will pick me up as his VP running mate if he gets the nomination. Then I can reinvent the internet while I take care of all the silly laws and rules that are piling up and simultaneously win the Nobel Peace Prize for pushing some unproven cause with a film on Oprah...nah, that's the stupidest set of unlikely events ever... /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

 

Reclassification will come up (now) every 4 years. An attempt to group schools in the most even classes will be attempted. It is an ongoing process. Of course...there will be changes if the tssaa is doing their job. They are going to try to group teams as closely as possible within reason. Believe it or not...they seem to be listening to what the majority of their members want...most of the time. I really think a public/private split is a very good possibility in 2009. I also think something will be done about open zone and tuition paying schools too. The way for those schools to avoid it is to close their zones and or don't allow tuition athletes. It's as simple as that.

[Solomon]

Alas, for a few years 3 or 4 of us were too successful, thus we must have been cheating. But, it wouldn't have mattered if we could have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was cheating...because imo it wasn't about that. There were a bunch of reasons given for the multiplier, but when pressed everyone eventually came back to the same admission. The DI privates were winning way too much, some of the influential small public coaches were jealous and upset that they weren't the ones killing everyone, so they multiplied us.

 

Remember way back about 4 or 5 years ago I warned that what this really was was a witch hunt for anyone who excelled? And I warned that once the small privates were split out or multiplied into mediocrity that the new targets would be the magnets and open zoned schools who excelled? All the private bashers laughed and wrote sarcastic posts back to me because OF COURSE it wasn't a witch hunt for anyone who was a bit different and excelled.

 

Now look what is going on. It won't stop with open zoned and magnets though. Once they are gone or multiplied the same whiny coaches will still occasionally get beaten...then it will be some other factor. They will split or multiply by racial makeup, or IQ, or urban/rural, or average salary etc. The real problem is there are some people who are in charge of our kids who would rather legislate a championship for themselves than figure out what to change to win one.

 

I think the whole process is a sad reflection of society. Instead of making a few laws that punish people who are dishonest and enforcing those laws harshly and consistently we make hundreds of rediculous smaller laws that we have a hard time enforcing at all...all in the hopes that we can legislate safety, or good parenting etc. The TSSAA's solution to every problem is to come up with new rules/regs that are more restrictive. The problem with this approach is that those who are cheating just break the new rules, so the only ones hurt are the ones who are honest to start with. Instead of splitting DII schools out because of suspected violations by some of the larger DII schools, the TSSAA should have investigated the suspect schools and then HAMMMMEEERRREEEDDD any that were found guilty of rules violations. The same should occur with the DI privates. Instead of a silly multiplier, investigate the snot out of them and hammer any violaters. The same with open zones, magnets, and every other school. That way the cheaters get clobbered and the honest people aren't continually punished with new and more oppressive rules.

 

But, alas, no one has made me King of the World yet, so I can't fix the problem. Maybe Thompson will pick me up as his VP running mate if he gets the nomination. Then I can reinvent the internet while I take care of all the silly laws and rules that are piling up and simultaneously win the Nobel Peace Prize for pushing some unproven cause with a film on Oprah...nah, that's the stupidest set of unlikely events ever... /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

 

Amen brother. Amen.