Maryville v. Maplewood

[Baldcoach]

Ok , I see that the chips on the shoulders in this room are HUUGGEE! I would like for you to name a player at MARYVILLE THAT DOES NOT LIVE IN MARYVILLE. As far as tuition goes , well I know Iam the only one who pays taxes and since there are no "private schools" in this area (as far competitive athletics go) then they are not pay me anything. I can assure you of onething ... if we did recruit none of you would ever win again. When you on top everybody hates you and that is their prerogative so go ahead and hate it is just fuel for the fire. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

grey,

 

I think you misunderstood. VG was saying that there are public schools that enjoy the same set of advantages that small privates do. If we are going to multiply the small privates or kick them out to another division then it is only fair to do that to the publics that have those advantages.

 

(We really don't want Maryville or any other publics multiplied or kicked out...we are making the argument from a fairness standpoint. Personally I think Maryville rocks and everyone should be looking at them and figuring out how to copy what they do...)

[Baldcoach]

I think it does matter to the discussion. What schools are you referring to? I really don't care about basketball. The discussion is about football. What schools are you talking about? Give me one case.

 

 

I gave a handful right off the top of my head. I think I can come up with more. You seem to want to make this about DI players...we have never had one EVER, both S. Pitt and MC have had at least one pro player, maybe more...so I am thinking that is a red herring. The point is that there are schools in counties that can effectively draw from a much larger pool of talent than other schools their size. You guys are one. So is South Pitt, and Alcoa, and Maryville, and Tyner, and Riverdale, and every metro school. All the schools in question have to do is be the resident Football power and presto, all the Joe athletes come there after middle school. It is happening right now, and it has always happened.

 

I think we should look at those programs and say "wow, great programs" and try to beat them. Isn't that what sports is really all about? When did we start picking out subsets of schools and trying to come up with bogus 'advantages' just because they are good? Statistically I can show absolutely that East Tennessee schools are better than West Tennessee schools in 2a, 3a, and 4a ball. They have won 2 of 3 in 1a for the last 3 years too. Should we multiply all schools east of I-65?

 

btw, it stinks when someone picks an advantage your school posseses and declares it unfair, doesn't it? Because you know that your school has some disadvantages too. And you know how hard your kids and coaches work. And you know in your heart that you don't have any more advantages than the next guy, even though they may be different. Welcome to the small private world. How would you feel if next year the TSSAA suddenly started talking about Smith County and how it was open zoned and you guys would have to be multiplied by 1.7 or removed to an open zoned/non aid private division because you had advantages that just couldn't be overcome?

[Antwan]

I gave a handful right off the top of my head. I think I can come up with more. You seem to want to make this about DI players...we have never had one EVER, both S. Pitt and MC have had at least one pro player, maybe more...so I am thinking that is a red herring. The point is that there are schools in counties that can effectively draw from a much larger pool of talent than other schools their size. You guys are one. So is South Pitt, and Alcoa, and Maryville, and Tyner, and Riverdale, and every metro school. All the schools in question have to do is be the resident Football power and presto, all the Joe athletes come there after middle school. It is happening right now, and it has always happened.

 

I think we should look at those programs and say "wow, great programs" and try to beat them. Isn't that what sports is really all about? When did we start picking out subsets of schools and trying to come up with bogus 'advantages' just because they are good? Statistically I can show absolutely that East Tennessee schools are better than West Tennessee schools in 2a, 3a, and 4a ball. They have won 2 of 3 in 1a for the last 3 years too. Should we multiply all schools east of I-65?

 

btw, it stinks when someone picks an advantage your school posseses and declares it unfair, doesn't it? Because you know that your school has some disadvantages too. And you know how hard your kids and coaches work. And you know in your heart that you don't have any more advantages than the next guy, even though they may be different. Welcome to the small private world. How would you feel if next year the TSSAA suddenly started talking about Smith County and how it was open zoned and you guys would have to be multiplied by 1.7 or removed to an open zoned/non aid private division because you had advantages that just couldn't be overcome?

 

 

 

Smith County only has about 17,000 or so people. We have about 640 or so kids...and Gordonsville has about 320 or so kids. There is very little movement from one to the other. If someone did want to play for the other...just move a few miles. The schools are only 6 miles apart. I really don't think there's any advantage at all. If the zones were closed...I think very few would even notice. Now...if Smith County had 100,000 people...it would matter. There...you would have a 1a or 2a school with the potential to draw from 100,000 people. Of course...you would probably have a couple of 5a schools with that scenario instead of a 1a and 2a school. If that were the case...I don't think it would matter much. Schools that big normally draw from a pretty big population base.

 

You keep referring back to East Tennessee. East Tennessee has won titles several times...of course in 2a (Alcoa) and 4a (Maryville). Fulton has done very well in 3a...but they have not done any better than David Lipscomb. Livingston won the 3a title a few years ago. Also...East Tennessee has not dominated 1a or 5a. Like I said before...it's not all about titles. I posted before who won and who finished runners-up in the last 7 years.

 

Also...if Alcoa is playing with kids within their zone (even ones that have moved in) I don't care if they win 20 titles in a row. Same with Tyner. The only problem with them is if they are winning with out of zone athletes. I do have a problem with that.

[Antwan]

The schools I am talking about are in West TN and you don't have to worry about them.

 

So it's ok to be unfair in basketball, but not football? C'mon now, if we're going to be fair and equal, we need to be fair and equal accross the board. We're doing this for the kids, right? To give ALL kids a fair chance to win?

 

I don't see how this is any different than anything at the core principle of the issue. Do these schools not have an unfair advantage over others they play if they can take kids from an entire county versus ones who do not? Yes or no? I don't care if it's one kid potentially or 100 kids, they still have an unfair advantage. It's the same argument that has been made against the privates for ages. Why is it differnet now?

 

 

Who were the schools in West Tennessee...and who had kids from another zone? I don't have to worry about them because they are in West Tennessee. Is that what you just said? Do I not have to worry about East Tennessee either? Gee...if you know of cases...list them. If you don't...then don't act like you do.

[VolunteerGeneral]

grey,

 

I think you misunderstood. VG was saying that there are public schools that enjoy the same set of advantages that small privates do. If we are going to multiply the small privates or kick them out to another division then it is only fair to do that to the publics that have those advantages.

 

(We really don't want Maryville or any other publics multiplied or kicked out...we are making the argument from a fairness standpoint. Personally I think Maryville rocks and everyone should be looking at them and figuring out how to copy what they do...)

 

 

Exactly. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[Antwan]

grey,

 

I think you misunderstood. VG was saying that there are public schools that enjoy the same set of advantages that small privates do. If we are going to multiply the small privates or kick them out to another division then it is only fair to do that to the publics that have those advantages.

 

(We really don't want Maryville or any other publics multiplied or kicked out...we are making the argument from a fairness standpoint. Personally I think Maryville rocks and everyone should be looking at them and figuring out how to copy what they do...)

 

 

I think there's a fundamental difference. Small publics can close their zone. I don't think small privates can and still survive. Small privates are in urban areas. There's no way to set a zone that is relatively equal to small publics.

[Solomon]

Who were the schools in West Tennessee...and who had kids from another zone? I don't have to worry about them because they are in West Tennessee. Is that what you just said? Do I not have to worry about East Tennessee either? Gee...if you know of cases...list them. If you don't...then don't act like you do.

 

 

For a couple of reasons, I don't want to drag the schools names into this. I'm sure VG has a pretty good idea the two schools I am talking about.

 

Answer my question either way - does the situation in fact not constitute an unfair advantage over other schools?

[bigchief]

I'm not sure how TSSAA looks at those transfers. Since it Federally mandated that students at "failing" schools be allowed to chose another school, I dont think they can apply the traditions transfer rules. The same thing can happen in a school that is deemed "unsafe."

 

I doubt in the Maplewood case it has made much difference. For a student to go to another school, they have to provide their own transportation. Economically, that is not feasible for a large portion of the student body. And I dont think very many families are interested in letting their kids transfer into a school that is listed by the state as failing.

 

I just wanted to clear this part up for you. The students at Maplewood (and every other regular high school in Metro)were allowed to transfer to another Metro school that was not also on the watch list after school began this year. EVERY STUDENT had this option. There are only four schools in Metro that are not on the list for some reason. Hume Fogg, MLK, East Literature and The School of the Arts. Since there is a required test score for Hume Fogg and MLK, those schools were out and since the school of the arts requires a "tryout" that school was eliminated as well. That left East Literature to receive about 30 new students on September 24th from various schools. I personally received new students from Maplewood, Stratford, Glencliff, Hunters Lane and McGavock. Out of all of these new students we had only one that wanted to play a sport. He was denied eligibilty by the TSSAA. No bonafide change of residence. He wanted to bowl.

[Antwan]

For a couple of reasons, I don't want to drag the schools names into this. I'm sure VG has a pretty good idea the two schools I am talking about.

 

Answer my question either way - does the situation in fact not constitute an unfair advantage over other schools?

 

 

It's difficult to say. List them and I'll tell you if I think so. Why wouldn't you list them? Give the situation and the schools involved. Drag them into this? Into what? It's not illegal. Go ahead and drag.

 

I have said over and over...open zone publics should close their zones and/or disallow tuition athletes. If they do that...no multiplier. if they won't do that...move up one class. 3 classes for publics...2 classes for privates.

[Solomon]

It's difficult to say. List them and I'll tell you if I think so. Why wouldn't you list them? Give the situation and the schools involved. Drag them into this? Into what? It's not illegal. Go ahead and drag.

 

I have said over and over...open zone publics should close their zones and/or disallow tuition athletes. If they do that...no multiplier. if they won't do that...move up one class. 3 classes for publics...2 classes for privates.

 

 

What does it matter the schools or the situation?

 

If they do not have completely closed zones and compete against school that do, do they not have an unfair advantage? We're dealing in reality, not Antwan's utopia of closed zones everywhere. If a student has the ability of choosing which school he does or does nto want to go to, does that not constitute an unfair advantage? Yes or no?

[Antwan]

What does it matter the schools or the situation?

 

If they do not have completely closed zones and compete against school that do, do they not have an unfair advantage? We're dealing in reality, not Antwan's utopia of closed zones everywhere. If a student has the ability of choosing which school he does or does nto want to go to, does that not constitute an unfair advantage? Yes or no?

 

 

In other words you don't know any specific situations. Read my previous post. I think you will find the answer to your question. It really depends on where that school is located. If it is a small school in an urban area...of course they have an advantage (potentially).

 

I didn't say zones had to be closed. I said that if you choose not to close your zone...move up one class.

[Solomon]

In other words you don't know any specific situations. Read my previous post. I think you will find the answer to your question. It really depends on where that school is located. If it is a small school in an urban area...of course they have an advantage (potentially).

 

I didn't say zones had to be closed. I said that if you choose not to close your zone...move up one class.

 

 

Please don't call me a liar again again because I choose not to give the names of schools.

 

And so will you head the cause for Smith Co. to play up in 09 since you guys fit the mold of an open zoned school?