Wing-T in 5A football

[compusatman]

What have you been smoking? Most people have no idea about the ins and outs of football! Are you that insane? And since when are coaches not allowed in the box? Are you nuts? And are we talking about college??????????? NO!

 

Everything being equal, sure, a play call here or there can make a difference..........but SELDOM is everything equal.

 

Not allowed in the box..........maybe thats why your team doesnt win many..........they dont even have an eye in the sky!

 

'04-1st round exit, '05-3rd round exit, '06-2nd round exit, '07-Final Four exit. Maybe the men in your stands don't understand the game. The men in my stands do. Does your QB call the plays? I don't think so. Only about 5 QB's in the state had that ability in '07...ours was one.

[NoNameD]

Well said. Superior athletes equals wins if all other things are equal.

 

No one has mentioned how well Webb School of Knoxville or Knoxville Halls has done running the wing-t. Webb has won three state championships I think and always competed with Knoxville's teams. I think that Halls finished second in the state one year running the wing-t under Gary Shepard. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Solomon]

No one has mentioned how well Webb School of Knoxville or Knoxville Halls has done running the wing-t. Webb has won three state championships I think and always competed with Knoxville's teams. I think that Halls finished second in the state one year running the wing-t under Gary Shepard. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but Webb won the D2-AA title three years in a row. That's not quite 4A or 5A to me.

 

I don't necessarily think that 96 Halls team is comparable. That was 12 years ago. I think then it was doable in 4A or 5A. I just don't now.

 

I will say that the wing-T Halls ran agaisnt Maryville last year was the most effective I had seen it ran at a higher level because THEY THREW THE BALL, down the field especially. The biggest reason I don't like the wing-T is because teams only run out of it and then try to hit on a misdirection run as their big play. That's fine, but it's not going to win agaisnt a really good defense. If a team would throw the ball using 3 & 5 step drops and run playaction off of the base plays, I think it would be possible to win with at the highest level becasue defenses would have to stay honest.

 

But, you've got to throw the ball 40% of the time out of it for it to be able to win against a really good defense in 4A or 5A IMO.

[zonepirate]

The biggest reason I don't like the wing-T is because teams only run out of it and then try to hit on a misdirection run as their big play. That's fine, but it's not going to win agaisnt a really good defense. If a team would throw the ball using 3 & 5 step drops and run playaction off of the base plays, I think it would be possible to win with at the highest level becasue defenses would have to stay honest.

 

 

The teams (in any classification) that are most effective with a base WingT will run the base offense, add formations from the base set (slot, loose) to spread the defense and have enough passing to be a true threat. Much of our passing from the WingT was play action and sprint out. We also added the gun formation with both zone plays and passing which really complimented the WingT because some of the WingT plays can be run out of it. A straight WingT team will have a tough time at any level. We run the WingT very well (running and passing) but the gun gave us the extra edge that broke open a few games. IMO a good offense must have balance and have a degree of unpredictability.

[StudentoftheGame]

The teams (in any classification) that are most effective with a base WingT will run the base offense, add formations from the base set (slot, loose) to spread the defense and have enough passing to be a true threat. Much of our passing from the WingT was play action and sprint out. We also added the gun formation with both zone plays and passing which really complimented the WingT because some of the WingT plays can be run out of it. A straight WingT team will have a tough time at any level. We run the WingT very well (running and passing) but the gun gave us the extra edge that broke open a few games. IMO a good offense must have balance and have a degree of unpredictability.

 

You hit the nail on the head, I don`t think most wing-t detractors understand how flexible the wing-t can be. When Alcoa and Jefferson County were running the wing-t there would be times when they would come out 4 wide in the shotgun and just walk down the field. Those two wing backs can easily be turned into two slot WR's in a spread look. Or you can do the opposite, come in in 4 WR, then motion one or both slot guys into the backfield and run you regular looks. Just about anything any other offense does can be reached in the wing-t, the principles and assignments may be different, but the key elements will remain. If teams don`t pass out of the wing-t its because they don`t want to, not because its not possible or effective out of the wing-t.

[Baseballmad]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Webb won the D2-AA title three years in a row. That's not quite 4A or 5A to me.

 

I don't necessarily think that 96 Halls team is comparable. That was 12 years ago. I think then it was doable in 4A or 5A. I just don't now.

 

I will say that the wing-T Halls ran agaisnt Maryville last year was the most effective I had seen it ran at a higher level because THEY THREW THE BALL, down the field especially. The biggest reason I don't like the wing-T is because teams only run out of it and then try to hit on a misdirection run as their big play. That's fine, but it's not going to win agaisnt a really good defense. If a team would throw the ball using 3 & 5 step drops and run playaction off of the base plays, I think it would be possible to win with at the highest level becasue defenses would have to stay honest.

 

But, you've got to throw the ball 40% of the time out of it for it to be able to win against a really good defense in 4A or 5A IMO.

 

 

Absolutely correct. The main reason Halls was successful last year running the ball was that most teams feared the passing game and couldn't sell out to the run and pack the box like in years past. The Maryville game was the best offensive scheme I've seen from the Red Devils in years.

Here is the problem with Halls it isn't the offense they run its the mindset. Wing-t can an effective weapon but if you don't pass from it you are doomed to mediocrity. I fear for Halls this year because they don't have a receiver that can stretch the field and score from short passes. This will put even more pressure on the running game and without a runner like Kitts who had a knack of breaking tackles and going the distance the offense may struggle at the start of the season untill they can find a good balance.

[zonepirate]

You hit the nail on the head, I don`t think most wing-t detractors understand how flexible the wing-t can be. When Alcoa and Jefferson County were running the wing-t there would be times when they would come out 4 wide in the shotgun and just walk down the field. Those two wing backs can easily be turned into two slot WR's in a spread look. Or you can do the opposite, come in in 4 WR, then motion one or both slot guys into the backfield and run you regular looks. Just about anything any other offense does can be reached in the wing-t, the principles and assignments may be different, but the key elements will remain. If teams don`t pass out of the wing-t its because they don`t want to, not because its not possible or effective out of the wing-t.

 

 

A struggling passing game in 2006 vs an effective passing game in 2007 with basically the same personel was the main difference in a 1st round playoff loss and a state championship. The passing game has to be part of the package to be effective.

[hvillefootball]

Come on, this topic is ridiculous, Wilson Central and Riverdale both run the Wing T and they were two teams that could have seriously won the championship. The only reason they didn't is because WC beat Riverdale in the playoffs and then WC lost to the best team in the entire state regardless of classification. Any offense can win state on any level as long as it is coached properly and it has the right players.

[Solomon]

feliznavidad-

 

OK, 25% of the state champs won with it. What size schools are they that are winning with it? Thanks to the sports package on Charter, I've watched several high school state championships in larger divisions from out west and I've not seen it ran once. I think in 1A-3A in Tennessee it's very doable, I just don't see it happening in 4A and 5A.

 

ZP -

 

I don't see many teams spreading it out of it. That's the problem. Very few that run it do. Like I said earlier, most that I have seen run it just the base run plays and then have a misdirection. Normally when they do throw it you can tell it a mile away. I'd love to see more film of you guys from last year. Maybe it would change my opinion more.

[fromthetop2]

One of the biggest challenges in throwing out of the wing-T effectively is the different blocking demands from the offensive line.

Coaches who employ the wing-T generally will spend their time teaching run blocking techniques. It takes a long time to effectively coach high school players how to correctly pass block against different fronts or blitzes with 3,5, or 7 step drops; it just takes too much time and effort to do teach both methods effectively.

[southernpride]

I have seen many a WingT team throw the ball well using just some form of zone pass blocking scheme.

[Solomon]

Solomon is a name that indicates wisdom sooooooo..................if it occurs on a regular basis in Georgia in the largest classification why is it not doable in Tennessee?

Lowndes Co. not only won it in GA in the largest classification ( I think 6A), but every game in the play-offs was a rat-killing.

So with your infinite wisdom, explain to me why Tennessee would be different and for the record ( I assume that you are a Maryville fan and they have had a great run)..............Maryville would not be very good match for either Lowndes or next door in AL with Prattville; those folks are different kind of beasts.

And as far as spreading it out.................that Wilson Central bunch runs every set known to man; they can be shoe to shoe in one set and on the next set, they are sideline to sideline. they are very tough to defend!

Riverdale was more wingish than WC, but they were primarily an option team.................the Riverdale offensive line was best in state (no contest); they just could not throw very well and I think that was due to lack of receivers. QB was great on options and had a good enough arm to throw, but he just did not have "targets".

The 4-5A league was very balanced this season...............probably the best team in the state not to make the play-offs was Lavergne ( a spread team on every snap)...............they had a couple of very tough close losses and some very untimely injuries.

Offense is kind of like "flavor of the month" and right now; the wing is not in high regard in TN, but I still have to say "balony" to the conjecture to NO in 4A or 5A...............if you will be real honest with yourself and go back and look at the Hillsboro-Maryville championship game; I really believe that if Hillsboro had not tried that silly Boot Pass...............they would have won the game. Yes, Riverdale fans----Aydellott will throw it!! (LOL).

You have your opinion and I appreciate it; I just do not agree with it.................lets agree to disagree!

 

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Prattville runs the wing-T?

 

I remember the pass. Think what you want about the game. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? I've lived here less than a year and have already heard more "woulda, coulda, shouldas" regarding teams that were close to beating Maryville than I have every other sports team in my life combined. Right now my guess is that opponents take is Maryville should be about 40-20 over the last 4 years, and if they had been in 5A they would not have even gotten a snap off. That said, even before I moved here I had learned to never count GQ and Company out of a game based on talent alone no matter who is on the other side.

 

I'm actually not a huge, huge fan of the spread. I do agree it is the flavor of the month and it will pass. It is nice to throw bits and pieces of it in with other offenses, but I don't like it by itself.

 

My personal philosophy in the high school game is a 60/40 run/pass ratio with with a lot of playaction thrown in out of multiple 3 receiver sets with a H-back who can line up at TE, Slot, or FB as needed.