"Transfers"

[scuba]

To address the whole transfer because of a bad situation debate:

 

While I will acknowledge that in some cases, transfering might absolutely be a last resort decision that needs to be made in terms of removing a player from a detrimental situation, I am in no way gullible enough to believe (and neither are most of the posters on this board) that most transfers take place because of "bad situations." My question is: What exactly makes the situation bad? Is it that Susie did not get the number of minutes or shots that she thought she deserved? Or is it that the coach made her run extra laps in practice because he did not like her attitude or work ethic? Or was it that she felt she was too good to play with all of the mediocre talent around her? Or it could have been that she and her parents felt like they knew more about what was best for the team than the coach did? Or was it that the coach did not put all the emphasis on her and her needs? Or maybe it was because the coach did not consult with her and her parents on every single coaching decision that was made? My point is that anyone can call a situation "bad" for any number of selfish and unfounded reasons, but that situation may only be "bad" becuase they are not getting what they want.

 

I think just about anyone who transfers will say they transfered because they were in a "bad situation." Even the young lady that AuntKim referred to who has transfered numerous times probably felt that she was in a "bad situation" at every school she attended, when in actuality, it was because she was not the "star" of the team and getting the number of minutes she thought she deserved. The "bad situation" excuse has been used numerous times on these boards for players who have transfered in all classifications. However, in one particular instance of a player that has transfered at some point over the past few years (it could be recent or not, but I'm trying to stick with the theme of anonymity), it was quoted that she was needing to leave a "bad situation." However, I, myslef, have heard the father of that particular player say in front of the parents of other players on her AAU team that the reason she was transfering was because he (and the daughther as well) wanted her to win a State Championship. Nothing was mentioned about her being in a "bad situation," just that she wanted to win a State Championship, so they moved to a school that has/had a great shot at winning one.

 

I do believe that in some instances that transfers move because of actual, legitimate "bad situations," but mostly I feel that it is just a ploy that is used to hide the the real reason they are transfering, which is to win, win, win.

 

 

In some of the recent transfers I don't think the parents think their child is the next coming of Jesus Christ. They simply want their child to reach her full potential, but you are entitled to your opinion. Some parents would like to not only see their child get a college scholarship, but they would hope that they have been coached well enough to have a chance to play in college. I would just say be careful to judge without having first hand knowledge of the situations.

[zpeace]

Anyone in the area knows that the player referred to by AuntKim and ptguard12 is a child that attended 3 schools in less than 2 years and lives less than a mile from a 4th school that she also attended in the past. Here's my question: Where is TSSAA when all of this is happening? They evidently did NO investigation at all or they would have never approved the transfers. Anyone who lives in the area knows the whole story. How much faith can schools have in that organization when they see the rules being flaunted like this?

[bud1]

There are programs that offer "better" situations for players that are driven and focused during and after high school. Two programs, Jackson County and Clarkrange, stand out from all the others in the Upper Cumberland. The strength of scheduling is always near the top for these two teams. Besides the District games that these two coaches must play, the other games on their schedules consist of AA and AAA teams during the season. During summer camps, these two coaches have played AA and AAA teams, also. Teams such as Wilson Central, Shelbyville, Milan, Bradford, Gibson County,etc.....

 

Besides scheduling, at least one of these teams(I can only speak about the one we have experienced) offers excellent conditioning and weight-lifting for the off-season training. This helps prevent injuries and builds the players strength and endurance. The regimen is structured and carefully managed by a trainer. This continues at some degree throughout the season,also.

 

How many of the posters, including you Pt.Guard 12, have tried to better yourself in a job, maybe for more pay, closer to home....etc....? Did you get the training you needed to make that happen? Perhaps you went and took classes at a local college or you sought out a professional in that job to help you along the way. Some of these transfers wanted to get better. They knew they needed that challenging schedule, practices, summer camps, superior coaching.....And to be quite frank, there are some coaches that care more about how they look on paper than they do about their players. The win-lose record is all too important to some of the coaches and because some lack the preparation they need, they choose to play a weaker schedule in order to guarantee as many wins as possible. This isn't the case with Coach Brown and Coach Rogers. They do not shy away from competition. They want to be the best, so they play the best. They also have the most prepared teams when game time comes.

 

Now about State Championships: If I go up and ask any high school basketball player if he or she would like to win a State Championship, I hope that not one of them would answer no. Why work that hard and play if you don't have those goals? I know everyone can't win every year, but the teams should want to have a winning season at least.

 

Also, you wondered if winning a State Championship with girls you had not always played with could be satisfying and the answer is yes. I know the transfer to JC thinks so. She will not take her ring off unless she is washing her hands or playing basketball. She looks at this past year and the culmination of the State Championship as a blessing and she feels very humbled and grateful being able to be a part of all that. It's something she won't ever forget. She hasn't forgotten where she came from but she is striving to become better each and every day. That's what we should all be trying to do, don't you agree?

 

You mentioned Kayla Hudson and her team Gleason. Gleason has been known for its great basketball program long before they won in 2006, so why would she not stay? She would not have helped her cause by going to Westview or Trinity Christian when she was already in a great, well-coached program.

 

Some people believe it is better to be the "big" fish in a small pond than a big fish in a pond with other big fish. Over the years I recall watching several players that stood out on the team that they were on. The teams that they were on usually never got out of District play; however, the star players would score their 30 points night in and night out. To a "me" player, that could be satisfying, but to a "team" player, that's not satisfying. Poor competition+ Poor Preparation= Poor Results. Basketball is a team sport and today it seems that about 9 players need to be in a rotation to compete at the top level. It takes several big fish to accomplish greatness. That's where the coach comes in. How many times have you noticed players that look above average in their skills during Junior High and by the time they get to High School, they haven't progressed? I have seen that happen too many times. Players will only get better when they are challenged through competition, conditioning, weight-lifting, etc. The players must also be willing to work on their own time through summer leagues or gym time. Some of these transfers are doing that part of it too.

 

With all that said, most of the transfers do realize there is more to life than basketball. Basketball is something they do, not who they are. Just like your job is something you do in order to feed and take care of your family. With scholarships, these girls can and will go on to college in pursuit of other life ambitions. Some will become doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. In life, we must not confuse our goals with our purpose. Goals can include being on the Honor Roll, in the Beta Club, Top 10 academically, athletic achievements, weight loss, quit smoking....etc..... but I try to remind my own children that our purpose in life should be to glorify God and lead others to Him. He gives us unique gifts, abilities and passions. How well we use those qualities to have an impact on the world around us determines how "successful" we really are.

[theCoach07]

Don't beat around the bush. You are talking about jc. Well they may just bring home another gold this year.

And for all of you that don't know of any bad situations, send your daughters or relatives to these former schools and see how they fair. You need to get a new life, and not try to down the young people for trying to better their life. Also ask about all the great athletes that give up and quit sports, because of these poorly and badly run sports systems. I could send you probably twenty or thirty names that have quit at one of these schools in the last 20 years that were good if not great athletes. You need to address this more. Till later thank God that you people don't control the

tssaa. These young people are only young once. The goal of all schools should be to advance character, and prepare them for adult life. Not to force them to either quit or endure terrible situations. One more thing it is usually the best players that give up, because they are the ones under the most pressure.

[ptguard12]

Don't beat around the bush. You are talking about jc. Well they may just bring home another gold this year.

And for all of you that don't know of any bad situations, send your daughters or relatives to these former schools and see how they fair. You need to get a new life, and not try to down the young people for trying to better their life. Also ask about all the great athletes that give up and quit sports, because of these poorly and badly run sports systems. I could send you probably twenty or thirty names that have quit at one of these schools in the last 20 years that were good if not great athletes. You need to address this more. Till later thank God that you people don't control the

tssaa. These young people are only young once. The goal of all schools should be to advance character, and prepare them for adult life. Not to force them to either quit or endure terrible situations. One more thing it is usually the best players that give up, because they are the ones under the most pressure.

 

 

My point was not that there are not any bad situations out there, because there are and I acknowledged that in my original post. My point is that players who transfer for their own selfish reasons will often times play the "bad situation" card to make themselves look better. Honestly, what player is going to say to her next coach, "I left my old school because I did not get the minutes I wanted or the number of shots I deserve?" They are not going to say that to their new coach. Instead, it is all about how "bad" things were at her old school and how she had to endure such "awful" circumstances.

 

If you are going to transfer, at least own up to the real reason you are transfering, whether it be for more playing time or to join a team that is going to win a State Championship so that you can say you won one too. Don't play the "bad situation" card, just to make yourself look less selfish.

[ptguard12]

There are programs that offer "better" situations for players that are driven and focused during and after high school. Two programs, Jackson County and Clarkrange, stand out from all the others in the Upper Cumberland. The strength of scheduling is always near the top for these two teams. Besides the District games that these two coaches must play, the other games on their schedules consist of AA and AAA teams during the season. During summer camps, these two coaches have played AA and AAA teams, also. Teams such as Wilson Central, Shelbyville, Milan, Bradford, Gibson County,etc.....

 

Besides scheduling, at least one of these teams(I can only speak about the one we have experienced) offers excellent conditioning and weight-lifting for the off-season training. This helps prevent injuries and builds the players strength and endurance. The regimen is structured and carefully managed by a trainer. This continues at some degree throughout the season,also.

 

How many of the posters, including you Pt.Guard 12, have tried to better yourself in a job, maybe for more pay, closer to home....etc....? Did you get the training you needed to make that happen? Perhaps you went and took classes at a local college or you sought out a professional in that job to help you along the way. Some of these transfers wanted to get better. They knew they needed that challenging schedule, practices, summer camps, superior coaching.....And to be quite frank, there are some coaches that care more about how they look on paper than they do about their players. The win-lose record is all too important to some of the coaches and because some lack the preparation they need, they choose to play a weaker schedule in order to guarantee as many wins as possible. This isn't the case with Coach Brown and Coach Rogers. They do not shy away from competition. They want to be the best, so they play the best. They also have the most prepared teams when game time comes.

 

Now about State Championships: If I go up and ask any high school basketball player if he or she would like to win a State Championship, I hope that not one of them would answer no. Why work that hard and play if you don't have those goals? I know everyone can't win every year, but the teams should want to have a winning season at least.

 

Also, you wondered if winning a State Championship with girls you had not always played with could be satisfying and the answer is yes. I know the transfer to JC thinks so. She will not take her ring off unless she is washing her hands or playing basketball. She looks at this past year and the culmination of the State Championship as a blessing and she feels very humbled and grateful being able to be a part of all that. It's something she won't ever forget. She hasn't forgotten where she came from but she is striving to become better each and every day. That's what we should all be trying to do, don't you agree?

 

You mentioned Kayla Hudson and her team Gleason. Gleason has been known for its great basketball program long before they won in 2006, so why would she not stay? She would not have helped her cause by going to Westview or Trinity Christian when she was already in a great, well-coached program.

 

Some people believe it is better to be the "big" fish in a small pond than a big fish in a pond with other big fish. Over the years I recall watching several players that stood out on the team that they were on. The teams that they were on usually never got out of District play; however, the star players would score their 30 points night in and night out. To a "me" player, that could be satisfying, but to a "team" player, that's not satisfying. Poor competition+ Poor Preparation= Poor Results. Basketball is a team sport and today it seems that about 9 players need to be in a rotation to compete at the top level. It takes several big fish to accomplish greatness. That's where the coach comes in. How many times have you noticed players that look above average in their skills during Junior High and by the time they get to High School, they haven't progressed? I have seen that happen too many times. Players will only get better when they are challenged through competition, conditioning, weight-lifting, etc. The players must also be willing to work on their own time through summer leagues or gym time. Some of these transfers are doing that part of it too.

 

With all that said, most of the transfers do realize there is more to life than basketball. Basketball is something they do, not who they are. Just like your job is something you do in order to feed and take care of your family. With scholarships, these girls can and will go on to college in pursuit of other life ambitions. Some will become doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. In life, we must not confuse our goals with our purpose. Goals can include being on the Honor Roll, in the Beta Club, Top 10 academically, athletic achievements, weight loss, quit smoking....etc..... but I try to remind my own children that our purpose in life should be to glorify God and lead others to Him. He gives us unique gifts, abilities and passions. How well we use those qualities to have an impact on the world around us determines how "successful" we really are.

 

 

 

I understand your points and I know the situation that you and your family came from (I have friends from RBS) and I do not completely disagree with your decision to move where you did.

 

With that being said, my point was that alot of players and their families will play the "bad situation" card when it does not apply. They do not own up to the real reasons for their transfer. They play on words and make it sound like they were the victim of an awful system. If the system is so awful, then why haven't other players left? Honestly, if you are going to transfer at least come out and say why you are transfering, and don't give people the sugar-coated version that makes you sound as wise and intelligent for leaving and the school you are leaving behind as a system that is trying to hold their students and athletes back.

 

You are a very articulate person and I know that not only from these boards, but because I have been around you before at AAU and Exposure Tournaments. Obviously, your daughter's transfer has worked out for her and I am glad because I have been told that she is much happier now. However, in general, I do believe that transfers are bad for high school sports and that the more players that transfer, the more problems and issues we will see as a result of it.

 

 

Oh, and as for my point about Hudson and Gleason (which was only to made to support Indian's statement). Yes, Gleason is a good school with a great coach and a winning tradition. However, up until that year, Hudson had never made it to the State Tournament and she had a much stronger supporting cast those three previous years. After the graduation of all that talent, she was not exactly expected to make it that year either. However, and this was my point, she did not take the easy way out and run to a neighboring school that was loaded with talent and had a better shot at getting to Murfreesboro, so that she could ensure herself a State Title. Instead, she stayed there, played her heart out, and carried her team (she willed her team to win games that they should not have) all the way to a State Championship. Elite players of that caliber can do those sort of things, especially in Class A.

[bud1]

We don't feel that our daughter chose the "easy way out" either. She went to a tough, disciplined program with a much more difficult schedule. She had to prove herself all over again because what she had accomplished in the past didn't matter. She had to earn her starting position by practicing with an elite group of players each and every practice. That challenging atmosphere was exactly what she needed and continues to need.

 

As for her time in RBS, the two seasons she played were very successful seasons. During those two years, the team she was part of set school records for most wins ever. They had 30+ wins and made a state tournament appearance. But was she growing as much as a player? Would she have continued to develop had she stayed? Would she have had the opportunity to play as a 1,2, or 3 at RBS? Would the schedule change so the players could play better competition? I believe the answer is no. It was all about growth with our situation. Maybe other families and players have left for other reasons, that's their business. I sincerely hope those transfers will be as satisfied with their decision as our daughter has been.

 

I really believe there are other posters who act like they are from JC or Clarkrange and they try to stir the pot at times. Pay attention to what I have written and not what other posters write that think they know why we made the move. I sure would like to share more thoughts with you in the future. Look me up sometime when you see me again. I'd like that.

[Redog]

I think when a player goes from a non-winning team to a winning team it does help their chances of going to college. I don't like it much but there's no rules against it. You say that when the good girl is on the team full of average girls that she makes them better. However, when the good girl goes to a better team full of better players that makes her better as well. I will say a state championship will get them better recognition and will add to that list full of achievments in high school.

 

As to your deal about the girl coming to your town and then not getting a starting spot and then leaving, I don't think is right. It just sounds to me that that girl wasn't good enough to start for that "better team" and didn't like having to ride the bench. If your going to play you need to work for and earn something rather than it be given to you because I guarantee you a college scholarship isn't just going to be given to anyone, you have to earn it.

 

Someone define "recruiting" in regards to private schools and then define "tranferring" in public schools. IMO there is not a definition - but they "seem" to mean the same thing.... someone please help me

[coloma20]

I get what Indian is trying to say, which is if you are as good as your parents believe you are and are good enough to be considered an "elite" player then you ought to be good enough to make the rest of your team better and carry your team at least to State, or come awfully close (especially in Class A).

 

Here is a shining example that I am sure most of you can remember. Kayla Hudson at Gleason stuck it out at her high school for her senior year despite losing three starters and nearly all of the bench from the year before. The starting lineup consisted mainly of inexperienced freshmen for the better part of the year. The team had no size and very little depth on the bench. With her carrying her team on her shoulders, they win the 2006 Class A State Championship. She received her share of attention from Division I, II, III, and NAIA college coaches because of her play during the summers with the Tennessee Flight, but ultimately chose to play at Union University (NAIA) because it was close to home and she liked the coaches there.

 

This young lady did not go running down the road to Westview (a AA sub-state team loaded with talent that would have made a serious push for the AA Gold Ball with her in the line-up) or head south to Trinity Christian Academy (a team that everyone knew would be at the Class A State Tournament that year) after the graduation of all that talent. No, she stuck it out and proved why she was an "Elite" player. If you ask this young lady which she would rather have: a Gold Ball with some random school (i.e. Westview) or a State Tournmanet birth with Gleason, she'll flat out tell you she would take an appearance at state with her school and community over a Gold Ball with some neighboring school any day of the week. But in the end, she was good enough to win it at her own school anyways with just decent, inexperienced talent around her and did not need to move to a team already poised to make a run at the State Title. In my book, this is a "true" elite player and champion, and she would have been considered as both of those things even if she had not won the State Championship that year.

 

Absolutely love this post. 12 this is an Elite post!

[senator]

I get what Indian is trying to say, which is if you are as good as your parents believe you are and are good enough to be considered an "elite" player then you ought to be good enough to make the rest of your team better and carry your team at least to State, or come awfully close (especially in Class A).

 

Here is a shining example that I am sure most of you can remember. Kayla Hudson at Gleason stuck it out at her high school for her senior year despite losing three starters and nearly all of the bench from the year before. The starting lineup consisted mainly of inexperienced freshmen for the better part of the year. The team had no size and very little depth on the bench. With her carrying her team on her shoulders, they win the 2006 Class A State Championship. She received her share of attention from Division I, II, III, and NAIA college coaches because of her play during the summers with the Tennessee Flight, but ultimately chose to play at Union University (NAIA) because it was close to home and she liked the coaches there.

 

This young lady did not go running down the road to Westview (a AA sub-state team loaded with talent that would have made a serious push for the AA Gold Ball with her in the line-up) or head south to Trinity Christian Academy (a team that everyone knew would be at the Class A State Tournament that year) after the graduation of all that talent. No, she stuck it out and proved why she was an "Elite" player. If you ask this young lady which she would rather have: a Gold Ball with some random school (i.e. Westview) or a State Tournmanet birth with Gleason, she'll flat out tell you she would take an appearance at state with her school and community over a Gold Ball with some neighboring school any day of the week. But in the end, she was good enough to win it at her own school anyways with just decent, inexperienced talent around her and did not need to move to a team already poised to make a run at the State Title. In my book, this is a "true" elite player and champion, and she would have been considered as both of those things even if she had not won the State Championship that year.

this young lady was exceptional with a good suporting cass in a coach and fewllow parents and her younger teamates won nearly every middle school game they plated in so she wasn't only talent on that team but all situations are differant and with all things equal most kids rather not transfer but ALL schools have them at one time or another maybe sometimes in lower grades

[UCSportsFan]

I think there are some very good posts on this thread and good arguements both "pro" and "con" so i don't want people think i'm trying to belittle any of what has been written by what i'm about to say, i just want everyone to know this. Everyone seems to be focusing in on a couple of girls transferring in District 7A. There was one transfer last year that had everyone up in arms, a few years before that there were a couple of transfers that took place and its almost as if "some" notice i said "some" not all, but some people either think or try to imply that this doesn't really happen outside of District 7A girls basketball and thats just not even close to the truth. District 7A and girls basketball in general pales in comparison to what happens in high school football. Where you might have one or two a year transfer, in football its alot higher than that. With Blount and Shelby Counties having "open enrollment" there are several transfers every year, add that in with the "private schools" and while i don't have the official numbers in front of me , i would wager its 20 or 30 times the kids transferring in just one sport, thats not including Mens Basketball, Soccer, Baseball, Softball, etc... So my point is why is everyone so "up in arms" if you will, over a couple of transfers that take place? It happens all across the state, and the nation and it has for years. I believe it was two years ago when two of Mt.Juliets best players transferred to Wilson Central so it happens all over not in just one area. So i guess i'm asking why is there so much focus on these one or two transfers? /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

[UCSportsFan]

Someone define "recruiting" in regards to private schools and then define "tranferring" in public schools. IMO there is not a definition - but they "seem" to mean the same thing.... someone please help me

 

 

I think alot of times it more "perception" than reality with the private schools. However when you have schools like Brentwood Aca., MBA, Christian Bro. etc.. that are DivII and actively recruit players it gives the whole private sector a stigma of recruiting. Not to mention the billboards that were put up by schools like Temple and Friendship Chr as well as the radio commercials that i hear promoting FRA on 104.5 it does seem that they do it more "openly" if you will? Is there a difference between recruiting and transferring? You betcha there is. However it is a fine line thats for sure. I don't think i need to give definitions out however i know for a fact that kids do transfer without any contact from the school itself so thus it is called a transfer.