Div II Favorite

[ahapplet]

I glossed over this question until FTDWoodroof addressed it.

 

I will try to ask this as politely as possible: if you had to ask what the gender composition of MBA is, how would you expect any of us to reasonably take you seriously about your opinions on how MBA populates its student body?

 

I'll refer to a previous post of mine. Many people who question/have something against DII schools don't even live close enough to know anything substantive about how those schools operate. This is a prime example - actually one to the nth degree, as most detractors at least know that MBA is all-male. You can disregard my previous "full disclosure" question; I think you just answered it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

BRBB - KW and I did meet at the Moeller game. I had gone up earlier with the family to take in a Reds game the night before, so we met at the stadium. It was an extremely hot day, but the result was well worth it.

 

 

Again, your post proves my point. How would or should I know about MBA's student population? Why would I have asked Woodroof, if I had known. I was ASKING how Division I schools operate and expressing the opinion that the reason you must play your games on weeknights is because people don't know much about these school and thus have little interest in the games.

[ahapplet]

For obvious reasons (FERPA, specifically), schools don't identify who receives financial aid and such. And the financial aid is not a scholarship, rather, it is an outside organization's assessment of what a family can afford to pay. In other words, no one is on a free ride.

 

Do I mean that we have no young woman at MBA? That's exactly what I mean; it's an all male school.

 

Nice to see that your son is the third generation of your family at his school. Consolidation in Nashville has all but eliminated that. I like and admire tradition. Sadly, it seems that much of what happened from the '70's through the '90's was geared towards destroying that. Among other things, the move from 3 classifcation to several more, in addition to a second division, robbed MBA of some long-standing rivalries. It's common knowledge that MBA had significant rivalries with Hillsboro and Overton. MBA's relationship with Pearl is less well-known: MBA was the first white school to play Pearl in football, and nearly got expelled from the NIL for it. Less well known are historical rivalries with Litton, Dupont, and East. I miss some of those games.

 

 

Thank you for your kind reply. I have learned a lot about Division II schools from your answers to my questions. You seem to be a gentleman and a credit to MBA. Good luck in the coming season.

[ahapplet]

My feathers are not ruffled. We've been dealing with this for years on CoachT. Tough debates require tough questions, and it looks like you are avoiding them. Your history does precede you, though - the benefits of search functions on this site.

 

The truth does not hurt; I just like debating with those who avoid questions and can't provide hard evidence or even examples. They are a deep-sea fisherman's dream.

 

I am not sure where you are going with VU/SEC/NC reference. That's college football.

 

Yes, Woodroof is infinitely more polite, I assure you. Anyone who would even remotely consider sending flowers to a hooker is far more of a gentleman that I would ever hope to be. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

 

I am flattered that I have inspired such an effort from you. I have not, however, bothered or been inspired to do the same concerning your history. This is what I have learned about you without any sort of search at all. You possess that maddening combination of ignorance and arrogance. This is an approximation of a comment from "Vogue" that I read years ago. The context was the comment a food critic made about a waiter in an upscale restaurant. You do realize that if you would quit responding to me, I would go back to the Division I sections where I belong. At least, you have over 100 replies in one area of your section and I get some credit for helping.

[AP.battleground.59]

Hey roll red, sounds like the truth hurts. Your one example proves my point. Was he All American the year Vanderbilt won the Southeastern conference or was runner-up in the National Championship? What's it to you who I support or if I post on this subject? If you don't like what I type, do not read it. Got it? I think that Division II football is like a Junior Junior College and that is why it generates little interest. Everyone is going to make it to the play-offs! Good luck. I hope MBA wins Division II football in 2009, because I like woodroof. He is much more polite in his replies than you. If not for mine and woodroof's discussion, you would have even fewer posts in Division II football. I don't care if I have any support on this thread. I really enjoy the debate. Sorry, if I ruffled your feathers.

 

Prologue: Nice Viagra jab roll red lol

 

Intro: It's 1:48 and I'm jacked on Red Bull, and I'm about to rip you; you of ignorance and clouded sight.

 

DI football, at its best, is the essence of high school football. Drive through Fayetteville on a Friday night to the Pit, and the entire town is shutdown. All that is active is that stadium. That is beautiful. That is "Friday Night Lights" movie type power. Watching Brentwood and Ravenwood play in the state playoffs a few years ago was sick. Local rivalries are just fun. There's nothing cooler than being able to have bragging rights over your literal neighbor. I got to see Mt. Pleasant play Jo Bryns three years ago in the play-offs. Again, when a small town gets behind their ONE school, its pretty exciting. But to every graceful swoon of DI ball, there are oh so many falls backs. For every perennial power, there is a team that wallows in defeat for decades. That Mt. Pleasant - Jo Bryns game, a state quarter final game, had NO KICKERS.

 

There is something about small town high school football that is unbeatable, but at the same time, its not any better than any other level. It's kind of sad, that in the face of pretty reasonable explanations to the lack of Coach-T traffic in the DII boards, you insist on saying there is no interest in DII football. So I will give you actual first hand proof that you sir, are in fact, a dumb toe

 

1) BA played on ESPN this year

2) EHS-MBA was PACKED and on TV

3) EHS-BGA was PACKED, on TV, on a Thursday night, and it was freezing

4) Ryan-BGA was PACKED and it was pouring down rain

5) MBA played in the Kirk Herbstreit (sexy guy) Ohio-USA challenge

6) I'm pretty sure BA sells out every game

 

Now, in terms of attendance, seeing that 400-600 student schools are getting over 3000 at games is a testament to...

a) Dedication of those school families/alumni

/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> The quality of play, because there were plenty of people at those games that had nothing to do with those schools

 

I won't focus on the differential in talent and caliber of play to much, because that would be too easy. As previously stated, DII-AA has a 70%+ win percentage against DI. Also, 6 of the top 25 teams in Tennessee came from our little ole 14 team Division. Also, DII is ranked as the 9th best class in the nation, while 5A is 25th. Having 8 GOOD teams in the playoffs is much more meaningful than 32 teams per class, half of which are just bush league. Oh, and MUS finished as the 25th team in the nation; got a trophy for it and everything.

 

The fact is, you are trying to put DII-AA football into this soulless generalization. DI is "real" because it's just good ole boys that are going to state funded schools. But DII-AA...THEY ARE JUST RICH KIDS AND OH THEY PAY ATHLETIC POOR BLACK KIDS!!!! Get over it. If a family would prefer for their son to go to a private school where he gets better coaching and a better education, more power to them. That's what they call the American Dream. You know, moving up the ladder of success, etc. I went to BGA for seven years. My dad is an alum and I played football, and I got over half financial aid. But those factors didn't matter. Financial aid is determined through some 3rd party Princeton thing, based on a families income...not the kids 40 time and bench press. Now, our two best players were transfers, one from Columbia and one from Lavergne. Now, were they recruited? I don't know; probably. But at the same time, they both had to make the grades and do the same exact work everyone else did. We've had some of our best athletes kicked out of school due to grades or conduct. No matter how "evil" you think private schools are, they are still run by goofy white guys that care more about where the Valedictorian goes to college and the cumulative GPA of the school over a state title in football. Stop the conspiracy theories.

 

Also, if DII-AA is "JUCO," DI is NAIA. THAT IS THE WORST ANALOGY EVER. SHAME ON YOU. YOU ARE A HREET.

 

Epilogue: Screw you for trying to belittle any level of high school athletics. No matter what goes on behind the scenes, the emotions on the field are the exact same thing. Be it when MUS plays BA in the Boro, or when Red Boiling Springs gets stomped by Trousdale. No high school football player thinks of all of this political stuff, so why should anyone else? High school sports teams are not for the school administration or the community. There are sports teams for the players. You are selfish, rude, and unintelligible. Most of the DII posters who go over to the 6 class sprawl of DI actually have some experience with them. Be it they attended a public school or they have a kid attending, or whatever. It seems as if the only thing you know about DII is what you see on the public-private forum, and what is essentially racist/classicist prejudice babel that you have most likely spread to your children OH BURN.

 

OH AND HESUS, 12 TEAMS IN THE DII-AA PLAYOFFS IS STILL MORE COMPETITIVE THAN THE 6 CLASS CRAP IN DI. YOU HAVE REALLY BAD DOUBLE STANDARDS. THE WHOLE POINT OF THE EXPANSION IS SO MORE TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. BURN AGAIN

 

As one of the younger, out of high school DII posters, I have first hand experience on the pros and cons of Ronnie Carter's Split. Yea, it stunk not being able to rag on my friends from Ravenwood and Franklin (we would've ripped them by the way /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ) but I loved playing against the hands down best in the state. As sad as it is, due to just crappy human nature, this debate between public and private will go on until the split is total, which I think is the best alternative to re-merging into 5 classes. Cmon...a BA, BGA, Ravenwood, Brentwood, Frankin region would be soooooooooo sweet.

 

Oh, my DII favorite is MUS beating BA.

[movinonup]

AP.Battleground - /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[ahapplet]

Prologue: Nice Viagra jab roll red lol

 

Intro: It's 1:48 and I'm jacked on Red Bull, and I'm about to rip you; you of ignorance and clouded sight.

 

DI football, at its best, is the essence of high school football. Drive through Fayetteville on a Friday night to the Pit, and the entire town is shutdown. All that is active is that stadium. That is beautiful. That is "Friday Night Lights" movie type power. Watching Brentwood and Ravenwood play in the state playoffs a few years ago was sick. Local rivalries are just fun. There's nothing cooler than being able to have bragging rights over your literal neighbor. I got to see Mt. Pleasant play Jo Bryns three years ago in the play-offs. Again, when a small town gets behind their ONE school, its pretty exciting. But to every graceful swoon of DI ball, there are oh so many falls backs. For every perennial power, there is a team that wallows in defeat for decades. That Mt. Pleasant - Jo Bryns game, a state quarter final game, had NO KICKERS.

 

There is something about small town high school football that is unbeatable, but at the same time, its not any better than any other level. It's kind of sad, that in the face of pretty reasonable explanations to the lack of Coach-T traffic in the DII boards, you insist on saying there is no interest in DII football. So I will give you actual first hand proof that you sir, are in fact, a dumb toe

 

1) BA played on ESPN this year

2) EHS-MBA was PACKED and on TV

3) EHS-BGA was PACKED, on TV, on a Thursday night, and it was freezing

4) Ryan-BGA was PACKED and it was pouring down rain

5) MBA played in the Kirk Herbstreit (sexy guy) Ohio-USA challenge

6) I'm pretty sure BA sells out every game

 

Now, in terms of attendance, seeing that 400-600 student schools are getting over 3000 at games is a testament to...

a) Dedication of those school families/alumni

/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> The quality of play, because there were plenty of people at those games that had nothing to do with those schools

 

I won't focus on the differential in talent and caliber of play to much, because that would be too easy. As previously stated, DII-AA has a 70%+ win percentage against DI. Also, 6 of the top 25 teams in Tennessee came from our little ole 14 team Division. Also, DII is ranked as the 9th best class in the nation, while 5A is 25th. Having 8 GOOD teams in the playoffs is much more meaningful than 32 teams per class, half of which are just bush league. Oh, and MUS finished as the 25th team in the nation; got a trophy for it and everything.

 

The fact is, you are trying to put DII-AA football into this soulless generalization. DI is "real" because it's just good ole boys that are going to state funded schools. But DII-AA...THEY ARE JUST RICH KIDS AND OH THEY PAY ATHLETIC POOR BLACK KIDS!!!! Get over it. If a family would prefer for their son to go to a private school where he gets better coaching and a better education, more power to them. That's what they call the American Dream. You know, moving up the ladder of success, etc. I went to BGA for seven years. My dad is an alum and I played football, and I got over half financial aid. But those factors didn't matter. Financial aid is determined through some 3rd party Princeton thing, based on a families income...not the kids 40 time and bench press. Now, our two best players were transfers, one from Columbia and one from Lavergne. Now, were they recruited? I don't know; probably. But at the same time, they both had to make the grades and do the same exact work everyone else did. We've had some of our best athletes kicked out of school due to grades or conduct. No matter how "evil" you think private schools are, they are still run by goofy white guys that care more about where the Valedictorian goes to college and the cumulative GPA of the school over a state title in football. Stop the conspiracy theories.

 

Also, if DII-AA is "JUCO," DI is NAIA. THAT IS THE WORST ANALOGY EVER. SHAME ON YOU. YOU ARE A HREET.

 

Epilogue: Screw you for trying to belittle any level of high school athletics. No matter what goes on behind the scenes, the emotions on the field are the exact same thing. Be it when MUS plays BA in the Boro, or when Red Boiling Springs gets stomped by Trousdale. No high school football player thinks of all of this political stuff, so why should anyone else? High school sports teams are not for the school administration or the community. There are sports teams for the players. You are selfish, rude, and unintelligible. Most of the DII posters who go over to the 6 class sprawl of DI actually have some experience with them. Be it they attended a public school or they have a kid attending, or whatever. It seems as if the only thing you know about DII is what you see on the public-private forum, and what is essentially racist/classicist prejudice babel that you have most likely spread to your children OH BURN.

 

OH AND HESUS, 12 TEAMS IN THE DII-AA PLAYOFFS IS STILL MORE COMPETITIVE THAN THE 6 CLASS CRAP IN DI. YOU HAVE REALLY BAD DOUBLE STANDARDS. THE WHOLE POINT OF THE EXPANSION IS SO MORE TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. BURN AGAIN

 

As one of the younger, out of high school DII posters, I have first hand experience on the pros and cons of Ronnie Carter's Split. Yea, it stunk not being able to rag on my friends from Ravenwood and Franklin (we would've ripped them by the way /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ) but I loved playing against the hands down best in the state. As sad as it is, due to just crappy human nature, this debate between public and private will go on until the split is total, which I think is the best alternative to re-merging into 5 classes. Cmon...a BA, BGA, Ravenwood, Brentwood, Frankin region would be soooooooooo sweet.

 

Oh, my DII favorite is MUS beating BA.

 

 

I don't feel all that ripped, but good try. Your comments in the first paragraph are exactly what I have been trying to express in my posts about Division II football. My compliments to your English teacher.

 

The rest of your post fits in the category of ravings by a stereotypical private school brat. I don't think that private school students fit into this stereotype, but as the "younger, out of high school DII poster", it sounds as if you might. First of all, why do you think that all black athletic students would need a scholarship. This is an ugly, prejudiced thing to say. The path to the American Dream, and success is not only by private schools. If you don't believe me think of the President, Vice-President, and current Supreme Court Nominee, to name a few, who have experienced great success without the benefit of a private school education. A good education and good coaching can be found in public schools too.

 

You also completely lost the argument, when you stated that the two best players at BGA were probably recruited. I guess that is why Division I and II are no longer playing each other in the play-offs. My opinion is that Division I football is more interesting to people, because students come from a variety of backgrounds, and are able to come together and make a team. You can type until your little fingers are blue and I will keep this opinion. Your post has only reinforced it. You testify to the superiority as to the caliber of play in Division II and then you have the nerve to say that your best players were "probably" recruited and even tell the names of the public schools that lost their talented players. You have a lot of reason to brag, except what's happened to BGA? Is Columbia not sending you as many recruits?

 

Listen, Junior, if you want me out of your "private" forum, then don't engage me further. I will miss the fun. Now go drink some more Red Bull.

 

 

AP.Battleground - /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

Why don't you try commenting yourself, instead of just pushing the buttons with the pretty pictures. I bet you could think of something valuable to say and I would be glad to read it.

[movinonup]

Why don't you try commenting yourself, instead of just pushing the buttons with the pretty pictures. I bet you could think of something valuable to say and I would be glad to read it.

 

 

 

 

ahapplet....... /roflolk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflolk:" border="0" alt="roflolk.gif" />

[sportsplayer]

I don't feel all that ripped, but good try. Your comments in the first paragraph are exactly what I have been trying to express in my posts about Division II football. My compliments to your English teacher.

 

The rest of your post fits in the category of ravings by a stereotypical private school brat. I don't think that private school students fit into this stereotype, but as the "younger, out of high school DII poster", it sounds as if you might. First of all, why do you think that all black athletic students would need a scholarship. This is an ugly, prejudiced thing to say. The path to the American Dream, and success is not only by private schools. If you don't believe me think of the President, Vice-President, and current Supreme Court Nominee, to name a few, who have experienced great success without the benefit of a private school education. A good education and good coaching can be found in public schools too.

 

You also completely lost the argument, when you stated that the two best players at BGA were probably recruited. I guess that is why Division I and II are no longer playing each other in the play-offs. My opinion is that Division I football is more interesting to people, because students come from a variety of backgrounds, and are able to come together and make a team. You can type until your little fingers are blue and I will keep this opinion. Your post has only reinforced it. You testify to the superiority as to the caliber of play in Division II and then you have the nerve to say that your best players were "probably" recruited and even tell the names of the public schools that lost their talented players. You have a lot of reason to brag, except what's happened to BGA? Is Columbia not sending you as many recruits?

 

Listen, Junior, if you want me out of your "private" forum, then don't engage me further. I will miss the fun. Now go drink some more Red Bull.

 

 

 

 

Why don't you try commenting yourself, instead of just pushing the buttons with the pretty pictures. I bet you could think of something valuable to say and I would be glad to read it.

 

 

 

Thank you for putting "AP" in his place. He is an arrogant little short guy that stood on the sidelines 99% of the season for all of his 4 years of high school. His playing time was limited to games that were already won and done. His contribution to the team was handing out water during timeouts on the playing field. Now that he has graduated he feels that he is an authority on DII football. What a joke!

[ahapplet]

ahapplet....... /roflolk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflolk:" border="0" alt="roflolk.gif" />

 

 

Ok, ok movin. I must admit it. Your posts are funny, as well as charming.

 

Thank you for putting "AP" in his place. He is an arrogant little short guy that stood on the sidelines 99% of the season for all of his 4 years of high school. His playing time was limited to games that were already won and done. His contribution to the team was handing out water during timeouts on the playing field. Now that he has graduated he feels that he is an authority on DII football. What a joke!

 

 

Thank you for your nice post.

[rollredroll]

No need to start a new thread, so I'll put it here:

 

MUS vs. South Panola To Be Televised on ESPNU

[Indian]

what's always fascinating to me is the number, over the years, of D1 supporters who feel the need to drop into to D2 threads and offer up their (unsolicited) opinions about D2 competition, teams, etc. And let us know what they think about us. Maybe at some point some D2 supporter has done the same, but I haven't seen it. Even though we are the ones constantly on the defensive about these sorts of things, we are by far the more restrained group. Of course, we all have our opinions on what a watered down joke D1 is, but assuredly you won't find us trolling the D1 boards looking for opportunities to share that with them.

 

Here's the deal...we were all very happy competing together with the public schools for decades and decades. There wasn't rampant rule breaking. There was properly adminstered financial aid (same as today)...and you know what? We won precisely the percentage of state titles that our membership accounted for in 3A. So as KW has noted many times, if we were cheating, we certainly weren't very good at it. There is no, "play by the rules, and come back to D1." The TSSAA woke up one morning and (at the behest of several cry-babies) changed the rules in such a way that would have required us to essentially blow up our schools and start over in order to keep playing in D1. Sports aren't so important to us that we'd shutter financial aid that we've been awarding for decades (mainly to non athletes), or telling the student body "only rich kids not on financial aid can come out for the team." It is (and was) a complete non-starter, which is precisely the reason the architects of D2 (not us, by the way) chose it as the basis for the league. Because they knew it was the only sure-fire way to banish us for good. There couldn't be a multiplier because we were all for the most part playing with a de facto multiplier.

 

It is what it is...I as an MBA fan respect those schools in D1 (i.e., Ravenwood, Independence, Smyrna, Lavergne, etc.) who do care about quality, fun, local games and put us on their schedules...those who expect and get great games. Otherwise, D2 is imperfect, and the attendance and fan interest is a reflection of this crappy league the TSSAA dumped us into 10 years ago (imagine if the TSSAA imposed the same thing on 10 random D1 teams scattered all over the state...talk about disastrous attendance. Any thoughtful person can appreciate how well we have held up in that regard). I'm content that we have a great school that does things the right way in every regard, and well, you can't have everything in this era of pettiness and jealousy...so we make the best of it. We have 3 great local rivalries in BA, EHS, and FRHS that will be fun for years to come. There won't be any 5-year 70 game winning streaks in D2, that's for sure.

 

 

 

You're leaving out situations like the McCallie wrestling fiasco which resulted in the temporary termination of their program. It wasn't just winning state titles..and in some seasons Brentwood Academy was the best team in any class despite playing AA so lack of AAA titles is a bit misleading.

[USLax]

"The path to the American Dream, and success is not only by private schools. If you don't believe me think of the President, Vice-President, and current Supreme Court Nominee, to name a few, who have experienced great success without the benefit of a private school education. A good education and good coaching can be found in public schools too."

 

 

Although I am not disputing your premise, I can't let this statement pass by unremarked. There are plenty of examples that you could have used to make your point, but the examples that you did use are incorrect. President Obama went to Punahou School http://www.punahou.edu/; Vice President Biden went to Archmere Academy http://www.archmereacademy.com/ and Judge Sotomayor went to Cardinal Spellman High School http://www.cardinalspellman.org/ -all private schools.