Grace Christian Rams 2010

[braveheart]

Let me ask this....how many of you have a state championship ring from when you played?...how many don't?...those that do, if you look at you entire life, was that the most important, the most shining, the one single moment in you life that mattered the most and was that the best it ever got for you?...those that did not, are you okay?...have you had a good life so far?...any problems attained from not receiving that championship?...didn't think so. and all of you that did get one and say "yes" to all those questions then it would suck to be you cause if that's the crowning achievement in you life you my friend are a sad and lonely individual. And once again, scouts DO NOT only come to playoff games...if you are good enough they WILL notice and begin the process of recruitment. Just ask Hazelhurst....no playoffs for him last year...but was still VERY MUCH noticed!

 

 

Since your screen name indicates Clinton and your mention Hazelhurst, I assume you have ties to Clinton High School, and are probably friends with the GCA head coach. Therefore, I understand your defensiveness. I beg to differ on the scout comment, though. While you may have scouts in the bleachers for Clinton 5A games, unfortunately not often are scouts in the stands for 1A games, unless that 1A team is running roughshod over everyone. As for your example of Hazelhurst, that kid is special. A two-way LB/RB, All County, All Region, All-State 5A, East/West All Star participant, on the ESPN TN College Prospect List for 2010, Knox Sentinel Player of the Week on numerous occasions, and who has rushed for 230 and 288 yard games. Obviously, a 1A kid with those credentials will get noticed. I'm talking about the 1A kid who may have missed an opportunity for a small school scholarship, simply because his team wasn't at the state tourney to be seen be the small school scouts. The scouts that are at State evaluating higher level talent and in waiting, just happen to come across a 1A talent. I personally know a few kids who were/are good enough to play at the next level (again for a small school), but were never seen by a scout during the regular season, districts, and region games. Unfortunately, 1A talent is often overlooked by scouts who favor the AA and AAA schools.

[tnvols2010]

all I'm saying is that if you are good enough, they will notice. I do have ties to Clinton, I went there and graduated from there in the mid to late 80's. I have a friend that is a coach at Grace and I have been attending church there regularly now. if you go to web sites for example, go to carson newman's website (athletics, football) you can fill out a form that let's them know about you so they can come and take a look at you. The player is also responsible to send film out to schools of themselves to get noticed as well. They do that for them at Grace. the coaching staff encourages players to make film, to send out feelers...that's why I'm told McKamey's desk is loaded with letters every day from schools looking at their players. One even get's letters from Harvard to play ball there!...you CAN get noticed easier at a big school...I'll give you that...but Grace is on the map as far as colleges go. Maybe not the SEC but it's a 1A school in knoxville, unlike let's say rockwood or greenback, so it's a huge advantage even if they are 1A...at their spring scrimmage like I said before, CN was there, Tusc. was there, MTSU and It looked like Western Kentucky had a scout there. At a spring Scrimmage!...You are right though, it's easier at a big school but if a player is good enough and does a tape and actually responds to feelers, the sky is the limit.

[JuniorsDad]

ALL THE GOOD PLAYERS ARE STAYING BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS ABOUT MORE THAN A RING. IT'S ABOUT PRIDE. THEY ARE GCA RAMS....SOME GREW UP FROM KINDERGARTEN ON IN THAT SCHOOL AND THAT'S ALL THEY KNOW. IT'S ABOUT BROTHERHOOD. THEY KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO STAY. TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT JUST BECAUSE THE PROGRAM WAS HIT WITH A PENALTY THEY STILL WANT TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT THEY ARE THE BEST 1A TEAM IN THE STATE. WHEN, AND I SAY WHEN, THEY GO 10-0 THIS YEAR WHOEVER WINS THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP WILL ONLY BE A PAPER CHAMPION. YOU GUYS AND EVERYONE ELSE WILL KNOW WHOEVER WINS ONLY WON BECAUSE GRACE CAN'T BE THERE. AND AS FAR AS "EXPOSURE" CLASSOF2002, AT THERE SPRING SCRIMMAGE, CARSON NEWMAN, TUSC., MTSU AND I BELIEVE WESTERN KENTUCKY WAS THERE SCOUTING ABOUT 5 GRACE JR'S AND A COUPLE OF SR'S SO I THINK THEY WILL BE JUST FINE. THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN THAT RING. AND IF THEY DO TRANSFER THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO TO ALCOA OR MARYVILLE TO EVEN BE ABLE TO SAY THEY HAVE AT LEAST A 90% CHANCE OF WINNING ONE ANYWAYS!...IF THEY GO TO KARNS, OR POWELL OR CLINTON, WHO'S TO SAY THEY ARE GOING TO WIN ONE? WHO'S TO SAY THEY ARE EVEN GOING TO HAVE A WINNING SEASON?...AT GRACE THEY KNOW 10-0 IS ALL BUT IN THE BAG. 9-1 AT THE WORST!...THAT'S A GUARANTEE!

 

Not giving much respect at all to those 10 teams, just wondering what team is being given a small chance of beating GCA?

[tnvols2010]

C.A.K. has given them all sorts of problems before and so has Greenback...I don't see Greenback beating them this year even though they might be okay again...but C.A.K really is the only threat I see...it's the high school football kickoff game on the first thursday night so nerves might get them..or nerves might make them play special.

[classof2002]

Now Vol, with all due respect, look back at your post where you were saying Grace is the best 1A team in the state of Tenneessee. That who ever wins the State title this season will not be the true champion because the Rams will be the really champ! Why are you changing your tone. Did you sit down and watch some film of the last two seasons play-off defeats? I thought that might ring a bell for you. And be honest, if the kid has the talent to play at the college level, there is no way they should stay at Grace, a small school as is, and now they have tons of negative attention surrounding the school, and no post season. Sorry But the best move would be to leave.

[braveheart]

all I'm saying is that if you are good enough, they will notice. I do have ties to Clinton, I went there and graduated from there in the mid to late 80's. I have a friend that is a coach at Grace and I have been attending church there regularly now. if you go to web sites for example, go to carson newman's website (athletics, football) you can fill out a form that let's them know about you so they can come and take a look at you. The player is also responsible to send film out to schools of themselves to get noticed as well. They do that for them at Grace. the coaching staff encourages players to make film, to send out feelers...that's why I'm told McKamey's desk is loaded with letters every day from schools looking at their players. One even get's letters from Harvard to play ball there!...you CAN get noticed easier at a big school...I'll give you that...but Grace is on the map as far as colleges go. Maybe not the SEC but it's a 1A school in knoxville, unlike let's say rockwood or greenback, so it's a huge advantage even if they are 1A...at their spring scrimmage like I said before, CN was there, Tusc. was there, MTSU and It looked like Western Kentucky had a scout there. At a spring Scrimmage!...You are right though, it's easier at a big school but if a player is good enough and does a tape and actually responds to feelers, the sky is the limit.

 

 

 

I feel your above post actually adds credence to my earlier one. Being in Knoxville, GCA certainly has an advantage I'll agree, but to get as you say "on the map" you have to have success. No diss to Berean, but how may colleges around the state are aware of this Knoxville 1A school in GCA's district? You also mention Rockwood HS and Greenback HS as being dis-advantaged because they are not in Knoxville. I certainly agree with that, as well. Not being in a major city certainly does not give them the exposure that GCA has. And for those schools who are less advantaged by geography or lack of success, there is some animosity GCA because those schools did things legally. GCA's success it why (per your post) McKamey's desk is loaded with college letters. Which brings me to my point, GCA is on the map because of their success, the issue is how that success was achieved. A few years back, the Greenback basketball team lost to GCA 4 times during the regular and post season. As I recall, each time by only a 1-4 point spread, with the final loss coming in the Regional Championship. Had not Wannamaker and Williams been on the floor, I don't think GCA would have beaten them (just my opinion for what it is worth). Because of the loss, Greenback drew University High away and lost by, I think 6 points. By the way, University High ended up beating GCA by approx 25 points at the state tourney. Had Greenback beaten GCA, they would have played Hampton at home and had a better oppotunity to advance to the state tourney versus having to play the top seed away. Instead, GCA took this opportunity away from them with 2 illegal kids on the court. This being just one instance of how teams were affected by what has transpired with the illegal activity at GCA. My earlier post provided a link to an article about 2 other instances in football. Sorry for my harsh response in my initial post, I just felt the "10-0" and "paper champ" comments showed an arrogance and a lack of repentance for what has being going on for at least the last 4 years at GCA. This school has affected a lot of schools/families in the area and I just think a little compassion/remorse is in order.

[tnvols2010]

My biggest problem is this....most of you people think that the Grace administrators and coaching staff sat in this secret underground supervillian layer coming up with ways to cheat. The fact is a pastor gave money to a family which was against TSSAA rules. These kids are not cheaters. The school is not cheaters. That's a harsh word to use. Mark McGuire was a "cheater". When you say that your school or your son or whatever was affected by the Williams kid you sound like a whiner to be honest. The game was played Grace either won or they didn't. Had this never came to light or had the church not assisted him who's to say the family wouldn't have taken out a loan from a bank?...could they have just done that?...maybe!?..if they had would you be on here yelling cheater? NO!...but since it somehow affected your life in a way that apparently cannot be fixed since you found out it was big bad villianous church pastor that assisted a family to send a kid to school. And as far as my statement about Grace being the best 1A team in the state...look at the facts...2 yrs ago..10-2 playing with mostly freshmen and sophmores, last year 11-2 playing with mostly sophmores and some juniors and a couple seniors...this year 95% of everyone is back, and the ones that are replacing seniors are even bigger faster and stronger than the ones that left!...the line 2 years ago averaged about 6ft 220lbs with a couple exceptions, last year bout the same...this year...from the looks of things I saw at the scrimmage they are averaging about 6'2 and about 260-300lbs. The defense is unreal with 2 all-state DE's...it's very unfortunate for Grace they are out this year and VERY fortunate for everyone else...

[zonepirate]

And as far as my statement about Grace being the best 1A team in the state...look at the facts...2 yrs ago..10-2 playing with mostly freshmen and sophmores, last year 11-2 playing with mostly sophmores and some juniors and a couple seniors...this year 95% of everyone is back, and the ones that are replacing seniors are even bigger faster and stronger than the ones that left!...the line 2 years ago averaged about 6ft 220lbs with a couple exceptions, last year bout the same...this year...from the looks of things I saw at the scrimmage they are averaging about 6'2 and about 260-300lbs. The defense is unreal with 2 all-state DE's...it's very unfortunate for Grace they are out this year and VERY fortunate for everyone else...

 

Unreal defense??? 57-13....

[TCstinger]

And as far as my statement about Grace being the best 1A team in the state...look at the facts...2 yrs ago..10-2 playing with mostly freshmen and sophmores, last year 11-2 playing with mostly sophmores and some juniors and a couple seniors...this year 95% of everyone is back, and the ones that are replacing seniors are even bigger faster and stronger than the ones that left!...the line 2 years ago averaged about 6ft 220lbs with a couple exceptions, last year bout the same...this year...from the looks of things I saw at the scrimmage they are averaging about 6'2 and about 260-300lbs. The defense is unreal with 2 all-state DE's...it's very unfortunate for Grace they are out this year and VERY fortunate for everyone else...

 

Unreal defense??? 57-13....

That's what I was thinking. Also an unreal offense.

[HTV]

My biggest problem is this....most of you people think that the Grace administrators and coaching staff sat in this secret underground supervillian layer coming up with ways to cheat. The fact is a pastor gave money to a family which was against TSSAA rules. These kids are not cheaters. The school is not cheaters. That's a harsh word to use. Mark McGuire was a "cheater". When you say that your school or your son or whatever was affected by the Williams kid you sound like a whiner to be honest. The game was played Grace either won or they didn't. Had this never came to light or had the church not assisted him who's to say the family wouldn't have taken out a loan from a bank?...could they have just done that?...maybe!?..if they had would you be on here yelling cheater? NO!...but since it somehow affected your life in a way that apparently cannot be fixed since you found out it was big bad villianous church pastor that assisted a family to send a kid to school. And as far as my statement about Grace being the best 1A team in the state...look at the facts...2 yrs ago..10-2 playing with mostly freshmen and sophmores, last year 11-2 playing with mostly sophmores and some juniors and a couple seniors...this year 95% of everyone is back, and the ones that are replacing seniors are even bigger faster and stronger than the ones that left!...the line 2 years ago averaged about 6ft 220lbs with a couple exceptions, last year bout the same...this year...from the looks of things I saw at the scrimmage they are averaging about 6'2 and about 260-300lbs. The defense is unreal with 2 all-state DE's...it's very unfortunate for Grace they are out this year and VERY fortunate for everyone else...

 

 

Again, as somebody without a dog in the hunt, this is my opinion:

 

I have met the Pastor on numerous occasions and find him to be a class act, but for him to make the excuse that "we didn't know it was against the rules" to the media is just not valid, in my opinion. Dr. Stewart has a large hand in decisions made concerning GCA and he knows that GCA is playing in the non-scholarship division of the TSSAA. That is the issue. Were GCA playing in division 2, this wouldn't be an issue what so ever. However, the school administration, which is under Dr. Stewart's leadership, had to sign off on the fact that no student who partcipates in sports can receive financial aid in order to play in division 1. That is the primary requirement for a private school to be eligible to play in the public school division. It's just not reasonable to believe that somebody in the chain of command at GCA didn't know that.

 

I hate that the kids have to be the ones to pay the penalty by not being eligible for the playoffs, but unfortunately that is the only recourse the TSSAA has. "Punishing" administrators sends no message at all.

 

There are a lot of good folks, a large majority in fact, at GCA in the administration, staff, faculty, and parent base. I know many of them, myself. Most of them also undertand about living by the rules and don't like the fact that this happened, but they accept that it did and are just moving on instead of whining and playing the "we would win the state" game on message boards. There is no need to even go there, because that is a claim that can never be proved.

 

As I understand from some folks close to the situation GCA had an opportunity to move in to D2 and only face the fine, but chose not to. There was an opportnity to avoid the playoff ban, but there wasn't a desire to move to D2.

 

The bottom line is that rules were broken, and it doesn't matter how they were broken. What I see is that the folks at GCA are accepting the penalties and moving on. It appears that the continual whining and excuse making is being done by a small minority.

[classof2002]

Listen vol, just because you have big o-line and as you say an unreal defense ( and that unreal defense has got embarressed the last two seasons when it counted) doesnt give you the right to say that your the best team in 1A. You play in a very weak district, with the advantage of recruiting players to your program, so you should be winning 10, 11 games a year. But you need to look at the facts, everytime you play a premiere team in 1A (which for you only happens in the play-offs) you guys get embarressed. I mean think about last year, South Pitt put up 57 points on you at your place, imagine what the State Champs would have done to you. Same result in 08, great regular season, got crushed in the play-offs. Sorry man but you are way off, Grace good team yes, one of the best teams, not even close!

[wiltthestilt]

C.A.K. has given them all sorts of problems before and so has Greenback...I don't see Greenback beating them this year even though they might be okay again...but C.A.K really is the only threat I see...it's the high school football kickoff game on the first thursday night so nerves might get them..or nerves might make them play special.

well Mr.vols that is why they actually play on fridays nights,i've sat here and listened and not commentented on your ridiculous comments,but you my friend are delutional,to the point of being almost funny,you all are suspended for the next two years for cheating!that means anything you all have done or will do doesnt stack up to a hill of beans,you will forever be labeled cheaters,you all should have good teams every year(you all recruit)and could have been good this year,but you all will be 0-10 no matter what happens!you all didnt give GB a chance against you all last yr(i'll admit i didnt either)but they took it to you all,yes you scored the most when it counted,but you have to admit they wer running all over you all.anybody can be a champion on a computer board thats real easy,but sometimes you have to line up and play a little ball,and when that was done(when it really mattered)you all came up not only short but embarrased!now get over it,you all are and forever will be counted as cheaters your next two seasons are all but over and i have a feeling when you get off probation you will be in a little differnt classification.and oh yes you should be very proud!i have seen nor heard any remorse from anyone associated with you school.you guys have taken alot of hard work from smaller schools to get to championships and made a joke out of their hard work by using ineligible players,you will never get my respect!