Reclassification?

[QSouth89]

9 minutes ago, Poundtherock23 said:

Well I did say playoff games too, the play-off games is mainly my thinking. If they cut out a couple of classes, one from public and one from private, that’s a lot of gate money in play-offs and two less championship games. Yes you are right the championship games are at best 40% filled, but you pay one gate for the day any how. I’m sure TSSAA pays Tech something, but probably next to nothing. The host cities submitt bids to host the championship games every few years, so I’m sure they get a great deal on the stadium use.

You are correct, I didn't think about all the playoff games, they do get a percentage of the gate and over the years I've seen some crowds so large at games that the fire marshal was trying to get people to leave (good luck with that).  I see your point about the money.

Edited September 21, 2018 by QSouth89

[cbg]

3 hours ago, Poundtherock23 said:

The private schools that give financial aid to players will NEVER be back with the public schools. The TSSAA fought a lengthy court battle with a very prominent power house private school a while back over this issue. Bad taste in mouthes all around, it’ll never be the way it was.

I know all about the legal battle and both sides were wrong in the way it was handled.  However, that has nothing to do with the question of why public schools in other states have no problems competing with private schools.  Again this goes back to both the parents and kids are soft and just want everything handed to them because they participated.  Like I have said in many other post we can all blame the YMCA for starting all of this participation trophy fiasco and wanting to make everyone feel like a champion.  The only way to change things back to where everyone plays together and the TSSAA makes money is to stop appointing teachers and principals to work for the TSSAA.  Hire a business person and things would change immediately.  

[DutchMantel]

22 minutes ago, cbg said:

I know all about the legal battle and both sides were wrong in the way it was handled.  However, that has nothing to do with the question of why public schools in other states have no problems competing with private schools.  Again this goes back to both the parents and kids are soft and just want everything handed to them because they participated.  Like I have said in many other post we can all blame the YMCA for starting all of this participation trophy fiasco and wanting to make everyone feel like a champion.  The only way to change things back to where everyone plays together and the TSSAA makes money is to stop appointing teachers and principals to work for the TSSAA.  Hire a business person and things would change immediately.  

I’ll agree with you on society wanting everyone to feel like “winners”. I’ll agree to dis-agree with you in putting public and privates in the same classification.

[cbg]

2 hours ago, Poundtherock23 said:

I’ll agree with you on society wanting everyone to feel like “winners”. I’ll agree to dis-agree with you in putting public and privates in the same classification.

Like I ask in the previous post why are the publics able to play with and win against the private schools in other states but not in Tennessee.  Are the coaches and players in other states that much better than those in Tennessee or did the people making the decisions in Tennessee just get soft?  I for one don't feel that any state has better coaching or players but they may have more depth.  

[DutchMantel]

1 hour ago, cbg said:

Like I ask in the previous post why are the publics able to play with and win against the private schools in other states but not in Tennessee.  Are the coaches and players in other states that much better than those in Tennessee or did the people making the decisions in Tennessee just get soft?  I for one don't feel that any state has better coaching or players but they may have more depth.  

They do play against them in Tennessee, and Tennessee has as good of coaching and players as anywhere. The public schools regular beat and have great games with the private schools. The private schools I’m talking about that will never be put in the same classification with the public schools, are the ones that offer tuition assistance to the student athletes.

[cbg]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:42 PM, Poundtherock23 said:

They do play against them in Tennessee, and Tennessee has as good of coaching and players as anywhere. The public schools regular beat and have great games with the private schools. The private schools I’m talking about that will never be put in the same classification with the public schools, are the ones that offer tuition assistance to the student athletes.

Let's not avoid the topic of why not place the public and private schools back together in the playoffs like most all of the other states?  I feel confident that you are not naïve enough to believe that private schools in other states do not offer financial aid the same as many in Tennessee have done for 60+ years.

Edited September 23, 2018 by cbg

[PaPaLegba]

11 hours ago, cbg said:

Let's not avoid the topic of why not place the public and private schools back together in the playoffs like most all of the other states?  I feel confident that you are not naïve enough to believe that private schools in other states do not offer financial aid the same as many in Tennessee have done for 60+ years.

Because you've asked this so many times I'm going to address it.

In Mississippi, the Private schools are in a completely separate association.

In Georgia- Private schools have their own division

In Alabama- Private Schools have a multiplier added to them. There is a debate to adopt separate classes and will probably happen in 2 years

In Florida- They are separate. Schools like IMG Academy are not even allowed to participate in the playoffs however, since they are athletic and not academic focused.

Arkansas- all Private Schools with 80 or more students in grade 10-12 move up 1. They ruled multipliers as unconstitutional.

North Carolina- No Financial Aid allowed and most private schools are in their own associations.

Texas- Public Private split with separate associations

Virginia- Public Private Split with separate associations

New York- Public Private split

New Jersey- Public Private Split

Ohio- Uses multipliers which people are still debating is unfair to the private schools. the Public schools are the power houses there, the opposite of Tennessee.

 

As you can see this is an issue in every state. The parameters in one state are not the same in others. Each state addresses competitive balance differently, and there are complaints in every state. Most states either have a split, or a significant multiplier towards the Private Schools. Some states like Illinois factor White Flight, number of students on free and reduced lunch, or even adjust based off of success or not success according to the competition. Some states do a Rotisserie, for example the top 10 in 3A switch with the bottom 10 in 4A to address competitive balance. So when you say they are back together in most other states and why aren't they here, I don't really know which states you are talking about. Most states the Private schools want to be separate because they can't compete with private due to no financial aid rules, so they apply a multiplier and force them to stay. You can say we are in an Orwellian nightmare of socialism and talk about "the good ole days when we were tough" all you want, but the reality is participation in all sports is down and kids that do actually care about sports care more about AAU , 7 on 7, and Travel ball with private coaches they pay, then they do playing for their school. If anything they are more capitalistic towards athletics now than ever and its not for the better. 

I say bring them back together, keep 6 classes, and say any student who receives financial aid has to live within a certain mileage of the school. The driving from Smyrna or Murfreesboro to privates in Williamson and Davidson is part of why they are separated. The Private Schools made it noncompetitive and the recruting of players at Middle School and Freshman games by the big schools gave all Privates the rep that they all did it that way. I'm sure half of people disagree with me which is also why we have this stale debate every 2 years. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by PaPaLegba

[osunut2]

1 hour ago, PaPaLegba said:

Ohio- Uses multipliers which people are still debating is unfair to the private schools. the Public schools are the power houses there, the opposite of Tennessee. 

Just to clarify, there is no split in Ohio, and privates are dominating the larger divisions. The current debate is specifically whether or not the current OHSAA multiplier/competitive balance (CB) plan is fair to the small private schools.

Pickerington Central won the D1 title last year (largest OHSAA division), just the 4th title won at that level by a public school since 2001. Last year, D3 saw a public school winner (Trotwood-Madison) for the first time since 2008. D2 and D4 titles are pretty even between public and private in the same time frame. The tiny divisions (D5-D7) seem to favor the publics in Ohio.

[cbg]

18 hours ago, PaPaLegba said:

Because you've asked this so many times I'm going to address it.

In Mississippi, the Private schools are in a completely separate association.

In Georgia- Private schools have their own division

In Alabama- Private Schools have a multiplier added to them. There is a debate to adopt separate classes and will probably happen in 2 years

In Florida- They are separate. Schools like IMG Academy are not even allowed to participate in the playoffs however, since they are athletic and not academic focused.

Arkansas- all Private Schools with 80 or more students in grade 10-12 move up 1. They ruled multipliers as unconstitutional.

North Carolina- No Financial Aid allowed and most private schools are in their own associations.

Texas- Public Private split with separate associations

Virginia- Public Private Split with separate associations

New York- Public Private split

New Jersey- Public Private Split

Ohio- Uses multipliers which people are still debating is unfair to the private schools. the Public schools are the power houses there, the opposite of Tennessee.

 

As you can see this is an issue in every state. The parameters in one state are not the same in others. Each state addresses competitive balance differently, and there are complaints in every state. Most states either have a split, or a significant multiplier towards the Private Schools. Some states like Illinois factor White Flight, number of students on free and reduced lunch, or even adjust based off of success or not success according to the competition. Some states do a Rotisserie, for example the top 10 in 3A switch with the bottom 10 in 4A to address competitive balance. So when you say they are back together in most other states and why aren't they here, I don't really know which states you are talking about. Most states the Private schools want to be separate because they can't compete with private due to no financial aid rules, so they apply a multiplier and force them to stay. You can say we are in an Orwellian nightmare of socialism and talk about "the good ole days when we were tough" all you want, but the reality is participation in all sports is down and kids that do actually care about sports care more about AAU , 7 on 7, and Travel ball with private coaches they pay, then they do playing for their school. If anything they are more capitalistic towards athletics now than ever and its not for the better. 

I say bring them back together, keep 6 classes, and say any student who receives financial aid has to live within a certain mileage of the school. The driving from Smyrna or Murfreesboro to privates in Williamson and Davidson is part of why they are separated. The Private Schools made it noncompetitive and the recruting of players at Middle School and Freshman games by the big schools gave all Privates the rep that they all did it that way. I'm sure half of people disagree with me which is also why we have this stale debate every 2 years. 

I know for a fact that private schools and public schools play against each other in New Jersey (Bergen Catholic is a very strong program), Florida and Texas.  In Texas they do have 2 associations but it's due to the private school not being good enough to play in the public school division.  A few private schools due elect to play against the public schools in Texas.  Now is some states the private boarding schools do have their own athletic association but that is due to many of them offering a post graduate year.

[Red Rebels]

36 minutes ago, cbg said:

I know for a fact that private schools and public schools play against each other in New Jersey (Bergen Catholic is a very strong program), Florida and Texas.  In Texas they do have 2 associations but it's due to the private school not being good enough to play in the public school division.  A few private schools due elect to play against the public schools in Texas.  Now is some states the private boarding schools do have their own athletic association but that is due to many of them offering a post graduate year.

I think you are misinformed. A quick web search indicated that New Jersey crowns 23 Champions in football with three of them being in the Non-Public section. 

Just because they may play each other (like they can in TN) doesn't mean they are in the same class.

http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/4639150218501770483/predicting-first-10-bowls-ever-and-23-championship-football-games/

[ocac]

On 9/17/2018 at 2:08 PM, Lost Old Dad said:

Yet another High School opening up in Rutherford County at Rockvale.  This is between R'dale, Blackman, and Eagleville.  Might pull some from Stewarts Creek to give to Blackman with zone changes in the county.

They have broke ground on the new Wilson County school in Mt. Juliet on Greenhill Road.  I am assuming they want to relieve Mt. Juliet and Wilson Central overcrowding.  It should not affect Lebanon.  Probably in class 6A in time.

[Vols2016]

4 classes would kill some of these single a teams whose enrollment is around 160 that would make single a cutoff around 500. 500 vs 160 is a huge difference. 4 classes sounds really good to you guys with 1500+ enrollment.