Farragut William Blount fight

[ihavenofriendzz]

3 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

I just have a hard time with this.

Player A, started a "fight" and apparently throws an elbow or punch and is involved in a disturbance that delayed the game.

Player B, didn't participate in the "fight." No harm whatsoever. He's just minding his own business (example #32 for black).

It's tough to sit here an say Player B probably has the same punishment as Player A. It doesn't sit well with me. 

For an official(s) to eject a total of 24 players in this game. That official better have two things correct. Those two things are for the following:

1) Correct players for both teams, including jersey numbers. Three officials to find out who the 24 players "participated" in this and eject each one is tough to believe.

2) Have an accurate reasoning and description as to why each player was ejected.

If they don't get the first reasoning correct, which AD Cupp alluded to, then they automatically don't have the second reasoning correct.

I understand the "can't be on the court" is a rule. But it's not a safety rule or anything, the rule is in place to prevent another "Malice in the Palace." And that didn't come close to reaching that level, and it wasn't a "fight" in my book. Kudos to the adults  for stepping in and doing their job. 

We're going to look at this video 3 months from now and sit here and say, "ejecting 24 players for that was just stupid."

I think most of us are saying that now.. and did 24hrs later.. let alone 3 months from now.

[KnoxBball1969]

What do we think WB odds are to come back against Farragut playing 3 on 2? In bounding the ball could become virtually impossible for Farragut. I’m fascinated by this.

[strongx]

1 hour ago, KnoxBball1969 said:

What do we think WB odds are to come back against Farragut playing 3 on 2? In bounding the ball could become virtually impossible for Farragut. I’m fascinated by this.

Agree. Does one of the fhs kids really have 4 fouls?

[OrangePylon]

If it is 3 on 3 William Blount has no chance. 

[tradertwo]

17 hours ago, etcoach said:

My argument with TSSAA was let's get myself, Coach Dodgen (Farragut AD), the official, and TSSAA on a zoom call yesterday and go over the film and discuss each player 1 by 1 and "get it right."  They refused to listen.  I fought all day for Farragut because they are a good team with 6 seniors whose career should not be ended because of one official. However, the TSSAA refuses to listen to guys like myself (28 year educator/coach/administrator/AD) or Dodgen (35+year educator/coach/administrator, AD.)  Instead they only listen to one official who provided an inaccurate report.  What they have done to the Farragut kids is criminal. We can point fingers all day about who started what and why it happened.  That doesn't really matter. I will continue to work to get a better outcome for the kids....but my it sure is disheartening to try and get the powers that be in the TSSAA to cooperate.  In all actuality, it's just plain sad.

I condensed your post into what really matters. Just to clarify, my school went through this a few years back, suffered the same (or worse) injustice, and forfeited the end of the senior's season. TSSAA will review your appeal in their own good time, or you will pay for the member's "inconvenience" individually (missed work, travel, ect...), and it still won't be in time to save the season. They actually got ours right...lifted any and all restrictions going forward, but I was still bitter about our senior players not losing on the floor, yet being done (our fight was after the game was over). Lot's of misinformation in our situation came from one official also, yet video and statements from others validated our position, even cell phone video from fans. Long story short...keep advocating your position, it can be "fixed", but don't expect them to be in a hurry.

[ILB1999]

4 hours ago, tradertwo said:

I condensed your post into what really matters. Just to clarify, my school went through this a few years back, suffered the same (or worse) injustice, and forfeited the end of the senior's season. TSSAA will review your appeal in their own good time, or you will pay for the member's "inconvenience" individually (missed work, travel, ect...), and it still won't be in time to save the season. They actually got ours right...lifted any and all restrictions going forward, but I was still bitter about our senior players not losing on the floor, yet being done (our fight was after the game was over). Lot's of misinformation in our situation came from one official also, yet video and statements from others validated our position, even cell phone video from fans. Long story short...keep advocating your position, it can be "fixed", but don't expect them to be in a hurry.

Sounds like your situation wasn't at all the same.  The problem here, which AD Cupp already acknowledged, was so many kids went on to the floor during the game.  This isn't a misapplication of the rule.  It's a well-known and long-standing rule.  They shouldn't win an appeal on it.

[tradertwo]

1 hour ago, ILB1999WHS said:

Sounds like your situation wasn't at all the same.  The problem here, which AD Cupp already acknowledged, was so many kids went on to the floor during the game.  This isn't a misapplication of the rule.  It's a well-known and long-standing rule.  They shouldn't win an appeal on it.

Our problem was/is the same...one official took the position that two teams were involved in a skirmish, and both teams (all players) were to be punished the same.

  All that we asked was for TSSAA to review the video evidence, read the credible written accounts (including the other two officials) contradicting the lead official's report, and punish those responsible only. As etcoach said, it appeared that TSSAA couldn't care less. Our fight happened last game of the regular season..."we" were at no fault (proven), yet missed the post season entirely, and I thought/think that part was horrible, that a simple viewing of video could have been done and a decision made by lunch the following day. Problem solved.

As for application of the rules, go back and read my other posts... it's clear to me that the rule says bench players not go onto the floor. They did, and should be punished...no questions, and no excuses.

[ILB1999]

5 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

Our problem was/is the same...one official took the position that two teams were involved in a skirmish, and both teams (all players) were to be punished the same.

  All that we asked was for TSSAA to review the video evidence, read the credible written accounts (including the other two officials) contradicting the lead official's report, and punish those responsible only. As etcoach said, it appeared that TSSAA couldn't care less. Our fight happened last game of the regular season..."we" were at no fault (proven), yet missed the post season entirely, and I thought/think that part was horrible, that a simple viewing of video could have been done and a decision made by lunch the following day. Problem solved.

As for application of the rules, go back and read my other posts... it's clear to me that the rule says bench players not go onto the floor. They did, and should be punished...no questions, and no excuses.

So you don't think both WB and Farragut went on the floor and left the bench?

[tradertwo]

Just now, ILB1999WHS said:

So you don't think both WB and Farragut went on the floor and left the bench?

What I think doesn't matter, other than I think that TSSAA could do a better job of processing and evaluating this type of situation. Time is of the essence to teams when playoff implications are in consideration, and getting the final outcome "right" doesn't necessarily mean everything is well and good when you miss the post season.

  Now back to what I think, even though it doesn't matter...I get the feeling that you are determined to argue with me for some reason. I've made it pretty clear that rules are rules, and when there's video proving whether or not a player violated the rule, it should be pretty simple to apply the punishment to those who did.

The video shown in this thread doesn't show both teams, but I guarantee you that there is video of everyone involved out there.

[JohnnyUtah]

20 minutes ago, ILB1999WHS said:

So you don't think both WB and Farragut went on the floor and left the bench?

Was told the gym video was reviewed and the Farragut kids were penalized for stepping over the line in front of their bench while the action took place.  

[KnoxBball1969]

14 minutes ago, tradertwo said:

What I think doesn't matter, other than I think that TSSAA could do a better job of processing and evaluating this type of situation. Time is of the essence to teams when playoff implications are in consideration, and getting the final outcome "right" doesn't necessarily mean everything is well and good when you miss the post season.

  Now back to what I think, even though it doesn't matter...I get the feeling that you are determined to argue with me for some reason. I've made it pretty clear that rules are rules, and when there's video proving whether or not a player violated the rule, it should be pretty simple to apply the punishment to those who did.

The video shown in this thread doesn't show both teams, but I guarantee you that there is video of everyone involved out there.

Exactly.. there are more videos than the one floating around from Twitter. It’s a school gym, there are probably a a handful of cameras capturing everything that goes on in there. 

[KnoxBball1969]

1 minute ago, JohnnyUtah said:

Was told the gym video was reviewed and the Farragut kids were penalized for stepping over the line in front of their bench while the action took place.  

I was told by people there that the coaches stopped them near mid court. Either way a rule is a rule. It might have cost the Suns a NBA title when Amari Stoudemire stepped onto the floor when Steve Nash was pushed in the scores table against the Spurs. This rule has been around and every coach I know preaches it.