State Duals format

[texas23]

I guess I take away from the answer is this, only Coach Henry knows what the process is to find out why a voted on action by the coaches was not moved on? Is that right?

Other coaches do not know what or how things are handled in regards to this type of situation?

[mjgIII]

It does us no good to complain unless there is something we, as coaches, can change about the state duals.

If it had been voted on before and the vote was in favor of change and no action was ever taken by the TSSAA. What kind of follow up is there from the coaches or their administrators (or AD's) to get some kind of read on the inaction of a motion that has passed?

 

Just wondering.

I'm don't think that just because the coaches vote to change the duals format that it will or should happen. What if the coaches voted to go to 64 teams? What if they voted to have the finals in Nashville in the GEC? Somewhat extreme examples, granted, but the TSSAA has to have the final say and money has to be a concern. As a DII fan I have no problem with DI expanding to 16 teams. I find a lot of merit in it, actually. And, amazingly, I have no problem with DI having a small school division in the duals (not individuals). If I coached a small school DI high school team I wouldn't want to be a part of it but if they think it will help with popularity and participation numbers, go for it. Just don't bring that way of thinking to DII.

 

One thing Coach Carter did say to me is that wrestling is the one sport that they would combine DI and DII together for the individual championships if the coaches voted and agreed. Not sure that could happen given the climate in DI, but it sure would be nice.

[sly]

Currently, there are private schools wrestling in DI like Boyd Buchanan. So if a DII school wanted to wrestle with the DI schools they actually could. You see if I remember correctly the private schools did have an opinion to the split....they could have argeed to stay in DI just like Boyd Buchanan did if they wanted too. This topic has been beaten to death from both sides but the reality of it is that some of the private schools in DII decided that it was best for them to split, while some private schools thought is was better to stay in DI. The choices have been made.

[texas23]

BK,

 

Believe it or not I really did not care about the particular issue (more teams in D1 duals). What I was trying to understand from either coach was, why is it that these two coaches (may be more I don't know) 1. why they are the only ones who can change things (jcu comment) or 2. if they do vote on some motion that no action is taken by the TSSAA, and they don't know why any action was not taken.(KKW comment).

 

I am not sure what you mean by don't bring that thinking to D2? I do think I understand what you mean by the current climate in D1, actually as I write this I am not sure on that either. What do you mean by that?

[delaWarr]

texas, I believe the "no action" position may mean that no vote was taken to approve or to disapprove. Just guessing here, but the "no action" may mean that the proposal is left open for future consideration. If memory serves me correctly, some proposals that were given "no action" status were later passed (but not without continued support by the association). It may mean that the voting body is not ready or in a position to consider passing or turning down the proposal at the time of the request. Just a semi-educated guess that may be totally off target.

[mjgIII]

Currently, there are private schools wrestling in DI like Boyd Buchanan. So if a DII school wanted to wrestle with the DI schools they actually could. You see if I remember correctly the private schools did have an opinion to the split....they could have argeed to stay in DI just like Boyd Buchanan did if they wanted too. This topic has been beaten to death from both sides but the reality of it is that some of the private schools in DII decided that it was best for them to split, while some private schools thought is was better to stay in DI. The choices have been made.

Who said anything about private schools in DI? I said if DI and DII wanted to come together for the individuals the TSSAA would probably OK it. As for your claim that the DIIs could wrestle with the DIs, most already do during the regular season. As to the split, financial aid was the point. DII schools decided offering need based financial aid was more important. You are correct in that the topic has been beaten to death and probably won't be changed any time soon. I'm sure if the privates in DI start winning on a consistant basis, you will find a way to remove them too.

[mjgIII]

I am not sure what you mean by don't bring that thinking to D2? I do think I understand what you mean by the current climate in D1, actually as I write this I am not sure on that either. What do you mean by that?

Hey Tex. I'm just not keen on splitting into more subdivisions, especially in DII. Too few teams as it is. I can understand some thinking that would be best for DI though. As to the current climate in DI, read sly's post above.

[tnsmokediver]

Adding the second place teams in each region would only make for a bigger tournament. I don't have a problem with that at all. Matter of fact it would be rather interesting. As for how well would some of the second place region finishers place, they could do well. If you've been around this sport long enough, you've seen some matches that literally go down to the coin toss. I was involved in a match like that myself. (Karns vs. Morristown East '91) Coach Hooban told me the morning of the dual meet that if we won the toss we would win by 3. If we lost we would lose by 3. We lost the toss and got beat by three. I spoke with Coach Dugger 10 years later at the DII state tournament about the match and told him what Coach Hooban said. He told me that he had figured the same thing or at least close to it. Granted anything can happen during the match. But for the most part coaches know who to wrestle against who and how to match up. The region One tournament this year had one swing match that I don't think Coach Mann thought would go the other way or his predictoin would have been correct. (He said they would pull off beating SH if they won the toss.) DB is a quality as is SH and it was really a shame that both could not be there this weekend. And I am sure there are several more quality teams out there this year that did not make the big dance by just a few points that may have swung the other way due to the coin toss.

 

Besides, the DI state tournamnet is bigger in size than the DII tournament, so why not make the Dual Tournament the same way?

[texas23]

delaWarr,

 

thanks for your answer. That is the closest thing to what I was trying to understand. However, it still falls short of what I was looking for. Does the association, in some manner, communicate with the association members not just the status (i.e. no action taken for now) but also the reason why the particular voted for action was given that status (i.e. there were not enough board members to vote during that session, etc.)

 

What seemed like a frustration with KKW aka coarch Masters, was the lack of understanding of why things were in that status. I could have misunderstoof his post, but as of this post his is still there and un-edited.

[Sommers]

Adding the second place teams in each region would only make for a bigger tournament. I don't have a problem with that at all. Matter of fact it would be rather interesting. As for how well would some of the second place region finishers place, they could do well.

 

Besides, the DI state tournamnet is bigger in size than the DII tournament, so why not make the Dual Tournament the same way?

I used to follow NFL football quite closely at one time and as a Dallas Cowboy fan in the 60's-70' & 80's, I saw where there were usually tow or three teams in the same division that could take it all, i.e., NY Giants, Washington Redskins, Phillly, and St. Louis.

 

The NFC was dominant as well. And I compare this to Chattanooga and other strong districts and regions. The top two of each region would be great just like it is the top two of each district that advances. Sorta like the wildcard.

 

soms

[sly]

Who said anything about private schools in DI? I said if DI and DII wanted to come together for the individuals the TSSAA would probably OK it. As for your claim that the DIIs could wrestle with the DIs, most already do during the regular season. As to the split, financial aid was the point. DII schools decided offering need based financial aid was more important. You are correct in that the topic has been beaten to death and probably won't be changed any time soon. I'm sure if the privates in DI start winning on a consistant basis, you will find a way to remove them too.

bkpres, I wasn't addressing my post to you. I was just posting my thoughts on THIS topic of State Duals format. You're talking about the regular season and that has nothing to do with this topic. You shouldn't take my post so personally. What I posted was just the truth not meant to be inflamatory. As far as your reference to remove any more private schools from DI only displays your negative attitude towards DI. What part of my post was not true? Your response to my post didn't refute anything I said. My feelings are that your reaction to my post is a clear indicator as to the current climate in DII. Touche!

 

PS When I'm addressing you personally I will start my post with your screen name. Just like i did with this post.

[tbag4head]

let's get some things straight. first of all the post season has been greatly expanded. the duals have only been around since 88, and the traditional state tournament has grown from a 16 to a 32 man bracket (not including the split). it is true that teams such as east ridge(in the past), hixson, ooltewah(in the future), and cleveland, do get a little passed over. however that is the way it goes sometimes.