Fair Play

[1ladytigerfan]

Another thing, your comment about big cities and parents sending their daughters elsewhere to school to be safe, that may be true but all these private schools dont compete with the "big city" schools, thats why they play in single A where they compete with the smallest, poorest most rural schools in the state.

[ksgovols]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but our local high school has just been put in a district with one other public school and 5 privates in AA football. The playing fields are not equal. I agree that most private schools do not pay what the metro schools or even alot of the county schools offer. I also know that some counties offer open zones, while many do not and 'temporary' housing is always an option to play at the public school of your choice.

 

The problem here is two fold in my opinion. Most of the 1A and 2A privates are a result of 'white flight' during the bussing era. The collapse of the neighborhood school in many areas has led to the conflict that we have today. The huge, public comprehensive schools are no better than the 1A private schools that cater to a certain group. The answer may be more complex than we realize, especially in the South. My opinion is that if every school had a limit on enrollment and area from which they select students and the neighborhood pooled all of their resources into making the neighborhood school the best that it can be with minimal government intervention, then the public school system as a whole would benefit.

 

When Lincoln County made all of their small public schools attend one comprehensive county school, they became much more formidable in football. When bussing forced many of the metropolitan areas to form small, private schools with influential families with finances to back the school, those schools could 'pick and choose' their students. The playing field for the small, public schools in rural areas is not level. They play with what they have and make do.

 

I understand the problem. The solution is much more complex. Total separation with divisions for financial aid and non-financial aid in the private sector might be one option for DII. The classification system for public schools in accordance to their enrollment would be an option for the public schools provided open zones are closed. Recruiting and temporarily transferring across zones is a problem that can only be corrected by bylaws by the state association.

[Antwan]

Most private colleges compete in the NCAA.  Perhaps you have heard of a few of them...Notre Dame, Vanderbuilt, Stanford, all the Ivy League Schools, etc.  The NAIA was for small private colleges that felt they could not compete with NCAA schools or that wanted to give athletic scholarships but would have had to be DivIII in the NCAA.  Many NAIA schools have switched to the NCAA in recent years.

 

So your funded argument is misinformed.  Seperate but equal...seems like I have heard that before...nah, surely not.

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Who are these NAIA schools that have gone to the NCAA? The only ones I know of are DL and Belmont in some sports. I wouldn't say many have moved. The NAIA is mostly all small private schools. Many don't have football teams. I do know that the majority of private schools in Tennessee and Kentucky compete in the NAIA.

[illpete23]

There are also public schools in the NAIA. Just like there are private schools in the NCAA.

[lions_fan04]

one "A" private has a volunteer coach whose daughter has graduated. No pay, he just loves the game. the same school also has parent volunter coaches for boys and girls soccer. all three of these teams are very successful. so its not always the best staff, training, and equipment that make a successful program

[#12fan]

Baldcoach,

 

My property in Colorado borders the Pacific Ocean, it has a great view overlooking a great white sand beach, a beautiful home, & maids that live there in the maids quarters to work for you so that you never have to lift a finger while you're there. Asking price - $500.

[lazarus]

hi royalred,

dont know how you can still respond to the same old stuff

even if it does come from newbies..

 

but i can answer one question for you. when you go into one of those games (dinky rural school up against some loaded private) you expect to win...

sure, you know the odds. but you dont go into it thinking about how to lose. you make a game plan to win. by the time you play, youve been over it a billion times. what it will take to win. what your team has to do. the players are ready. you are ready. no matter the odds, by game time you are convinced you will win.

if you have done your job, the players are too.

 

you have been on here a long time. you seem like an intelligent guy. that patronizing "you just lose because you give up" stuff is beneath you.

[rollredroll]

hi royalred,

dont know how you can still respond to the same old stuff

even if it does come from newbies...

 

you have been on here a long time. you seem like an intelligent guy. that patronizing "you just lose because you give up" stuff is beneath you.

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I will not try to change your mind as to the issue of my being patronizing, but I can't help but wonder if issues of the mind don't play a role in some of these contests, particularly the ones that are draws or near-draws on paper.

 

#12fan said, "It's a common quote among Class A softball coaches at public schools that all you have to do to even get to the state tournament is 'beat the best teams money can buy.'" If that is actually true, then I think there may be some validity to psychological issues playing a role. Coaches with this mindset may be more defensive in game preparation than offensive (and it was never a question to me if the small publics prepared with a game plan; it was more of an issue of with how much confidence these schools went about preparation).

 

Yes, I have been on here for awhile, and quite frankly, enjoy this particular Board more so when it's dead than when it's active. I do find myself drawn in, though, when issues heat up. And, quite coincidentally, it's usually only during this time of year, and when the first few rounds of the football playoffs have occurred (aside: Why is the P/P Debate only a heated debate after a certain outcome has been achieved?). As long as unsubstantiated cries of sponsoring parents and illegal recruiting and other potshots surface, I will probably continue to be drawn into the fray. And, while that stuff could happen, saying it does happen on this site carries as much weight as a private school supporter saying it doesn't happen.

Edited May 23, 2005 by rollredroll

[illpete23]

Baldcoach,  

 

My property in Colorado borders the Pacific Ocean, it has a great view overlooking a great white sand beach, a beautiful home, & maids that live there in the maids quarters to work for you so that you never have to lift a finger while you're there.  Asking price - $500.

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Okay, but I still want to purchase that sandbox in Arizona...

[frhspurplefan]

There is....it's called division ll, but to place all private schools there would be unfair to the small schools.  The schools in division ll give scholarships or financial aide to athletes.  The private schools in division l do not.  The small division l schools that don't give financial aide such as Grace, Christian Academy of Knoxville, Boyd Buchanan can't compete at the same level as Baylor, Montgomery Bell Academy and others that do give aide. 

The students that go to the smaller private schools and compete in sports pay their own way.  Most of them do this to receive a christian education.

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One note: It is not just financial aid to athletes, it's any type of financial aid period. I think there might be a few Div II schools that would like to compete in A, AA and AAA but are forced into Div II because of TSSAA and a few AAA schools coaches that couldn't stand getting beat every year by a school with less than 300 students ( fill in the blanks ).

[Baldcoach]

OK, so the replies to my posts boiled down to 2 things.

 

First, the "ok, the privates may not have dominated all sports like I said for 20 years but they have dominated small school softball for a while at least" posts. Granted. Like I posted, perhaps there are reasons other than recruiting athletes (which doesn't happen), or recruiting the best coaches with higher pay (which doesn't happen). To be fair the small privates have also dominated Football for the last 5 years or so. I think it is cyclic and has to do with the overall poor job that Tennessee public schools are doing right now. But I could be wrong...thus the multiplier.

 

Second, the "I have property in Colorado" posters. Which dont address any issues or offer any evidence for their obvious biases but seem to think slick cuts at posters who oppose them somehow validate their views.

 

p.s. DL and Belmont did switch to the NCAA. They are the 2nd and 3rd largest private schools in Tennessee behind Vanderbuilt (NCAA). Other privates in Tennessee in the NCAA are Carson Newman, Sewannee, Tusculum, and probably a couple more that I can't think of. I wasn't arguing the whole NAIA vs NCAA thingy...just pointing out that the post using the different college leagues as evidence for a public private split was mistaken. Like Antwan said, most schools in the NAIA are non-football and small. It isn't a matter of public or private.

[softballscout]

I guess I'll just have to "jump on the bandwagon" so to speak.  Private schools do dominate Class A softball & have for years because of one thing.  MONEY!  It's a common quote among Class A softball coaches at public schools that all you have to do to even get to the state tournament is "beat the best teams money can buy."  Forget about winning the state tournament.  The salaries that private schools can pay their coaches/teachers is one of the differences.  Now lets talk about the private instruction that is paid for, the best equipment that is purchased, the great facilities, and so on.  For anyone that really believes that private schools have the best programs year in & year out by coincidence, I've got some great ocean front property in Colorado I'd love to sell!!!

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i have never responded to a private/public debate before. My daughter goes to Goodpasture. If they paid for her to go there tell that to the 5500 dollars I just forked over for her to go there next year. Goodpasture does not pay for anything for their softball team. A parent bought the uniforms, a parent does the field maintenance everyday, the parents works on the fields in the spring. I spent allday painting cougar paws on the sidewalks with other parents and kids. If we had a quality and safe school she could go to, I would love to save that money that i pay every year. I also support my kids decision to anything they want (as long as they get good grades) my older one was a band member I forked out big bucks for that. I send my younger one to lessons for softball, and she plays travel ball that is not cheap. I believe it is an investment for her in education and sports for a scholorship. All the A private schools also have another thing, most of the kids play travelball because that is where you get better. We have won state championships, but our facilities cannot compare to some of the public school fields. Have you seen Lincoln County, or riverdales facilities? Wow. My family sacrifices money, vacation time, new cars and houses for the kids. The only transfer I have seen come into Goodpasture was from another private school. But we are losing five seniors this year, so are there any good 8th graders out there looking for a great education. Is it coincidence that private schools do better in the classroom overall? It must be that recruiting we do for smart people. HeHe thumb